Posts: 3,706
Threads: 95
Joined: May 2012
Reputation:
9
The multiple bullet thing is a quirk of the CSS. Or more to the point, it happens when you open with - . It can be avoided by starting the following point with colons to pad (***line / {{quote}} / ::* next line), or by simply shoving the quote onto the end of the previous line.
It might be possible to tweak the CSS to avoid it. I haven't given it much thought, but it's on the list of "minor things I'd consider fixing eventually". These days it seems like all my editing is via bots.
@Bob, I can't come up with much for a title either. "Much Writing Mechanics, Very Wow!" Nope, Doge is no help either.
-- ∇×V
Posts: 27,614
Threads: 2,271
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
21
Let's go with "Mechanics of Writing" as the section name on the sidebar and main page, and as a category name. If we come up with something better along the way, we can always change it.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Posts: 424
Threads: 8
Joined: Feb 2009
Reputation:
0
I'll give that I go next time I dive back in. Thanks vorticity.
Posts: 1,746
Threads: 7
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation:
3
Bob Schroeck Wrote:Let's go with "Mechanics of Writing" as the section name on the sidebar and main page, and as a category name. If we come up with something better along the way, we can always change it.
Done. Will be added by the time you read this.
I have already added Index Index tags and since this is a project you have yet to port over and work on, the page link on the sidebar is restricted to admin editing only (which you already have rights for), so feel free to remove it when you feel appropriate.
Posts: 27,614
Threads: 2,271
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
21
I had a few minutes after lunch and started tagging a few existing pages with the category. I've got a busy weekend ahead of me, but if I can fit the time in, I'll start parcelling out my writer's guide into pages and write an intro that's a bit more impersonal than the one the guide has.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Posts: 3,706
Threads: 95
Joined: May 2012
Reputation:
9
The guide was useful to me, anyway. The thing is, your guide is more focused on writing fanfiction. There are plenty of guides for writing out there, but not so much in the way of fanfiction. Admittedly most of the rules are the same, but it is sadly important to note "don't spell it Hermine", etc.
The topic I came here to bring up was the idea of Playing With a Trope. In particular, the naming thereof. On TVT's namespace, a page named PlayingWith.RedHerring makes a lot of sense textually. On our system of subpages, "Red Herring/Playing With" sounds strange. (Not to mention it ends with a preposition.) So I'm thinking about renaming the pages to have more of a concrete title.
Currently, "Meta Trope Info" redirects to "Playing With a Trope". So "metatrope" is the first thing to mind. But I'm not sure that was ever the right word. Playing with a Trope includes all of the things like "averted", "subverted", "inverted", "played straight". So I don't think those go above/beyond, nor do they constitute another level of tropiness. But I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of those words include the suffix "-vert", "turning". So I'm going to remember my O-chem and suggest/coin "paratrope" instead, as "para-" means "to the side of/opposed to".
Is "Paratrope" or "Metatrope" good, or do y'all have other ideas? Keep "Playing With"?
At least that works better than "orthotrope", and people who write these pages could be "paratropers"!
-- ∇×V
Posts: 27,614
Threads: 2,271
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
21
Quote:The thing is, your guide is more focused on writing fanfiction.
Agreed. I do plan to generalize where needed and strip out fanfic-specific advice where needed as well; or maybe relegate it to a subsection for fic writers specifically.
Won't be doing that any time soon, though, as Orain's currently playing the ever-popular Bad Gateway game again. Plus I have a batch of beer to brew when I'm done here. Quote:So I don't think those go above/beyond,
The thing is, "meta" doesn't always have its original literal Greek meaning in English. It can also denote a superset, which is I think appropriate here. However, while I don't think the users are going to put as much thought into it as you have, I can see your point. Nomenclature is important, especially if we're aiming to be stronger at analysis than TVT. In that case, well, I follow your logic on "paratrope" and even though it sounds strange to me, agree that it makes sense. Quote:people who write these pages could be "paratropers"!
It would certainly make for a great userbadge!
EDIT: even though you already answered, my sense of aesthetics demands I fix my quoting.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Posts: 3,706
Threads: 95
Joined: May 2012
Reputation:
9
That was resolved this morning. This always seems to happen when only people on the Pacific are awake. I think I'll tell one of the admins to move to Honolulu. *done*
Of course, now I'm doubting my own analysis about the meaning of the "meta-" and "para-" and how they'd apply in this case, so I'm going to ask some friends.
-- ∇×V
Posts: 27,614
Threads: 2,271
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
21
For anyone who's interested, I've just posted an initial draft of the http://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/Mec ... of_Writing]introduction to Mechanics of Writing to the wiki.
I'm thinking of making an "Under Construction" template to stick on these pages while I work on the section...
And do my eyes deceive me? Are we starting to regularly get three or more new users a day now?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Posts: 461
Threads: 9
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation:
0
One thing that I would like to request is this:
On the previous version of the ATT forums, the categories had a column showing when the last reply was made to each of them. One didn't need to click on the name of the category to see when the last reply to any thread within had been made. On the current setup of the new version of the forums, you do have to click on the category titles to see when the most recent reply was made. I would like to see the "most recent reply" feature (or however you want to title it) return, assuming that it is possible on the current build.
Posts: 1,746
Threads: 7
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation:
3
Tennie Wrote:One thing that I would like to request is this:
On the previous version of the ATT forums, the categories had a column showing when the last reply was made to each of them. One didn't need to click on the name of the category to see when the last reply to any thread within had been made. On the current setup of the new version of the forums, you do have to click on the category titles to see when the most recent reply was made. I would like to see the "most recent reply" feature (or however you want to title it) return, assuming that it is possible on the current build.
Unfortunately, that feature doesn't work the same on LQT-style forums. You can see the Last Modified date at the top of the page with the thread list and browse through the threads to see the dates in that fashion, but the old functionality cannot, sadly, be implemented the way it was when using DPL.
There should be a way to reimplement something similar using a magic word/template, and I'll see what I can do about getting something like that set up.
Posts: 1,746
Threads: 7
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation:
3
Some tech updates:
1. Miser Mode has been disabled. This was enabled back when our server resources were kinda crappy, and it was recently disabled by my request for cleanup purposes. Please report any issues you think may be connected to the Orain staff on Orain's IRC channel or to either myself or Vorticity. This should improve performance in the long run, but inform us if there are any page timeouts or other problems during page loads.
2. The forum update I was asked about earlier is technically possibly, but only on MW 1.23, which is still undergoing final testing before release. Once Orain moves to that branch, I'll see what I can do about adding a "last modified date" to forums.
3. MW 1.23 comes with larger text on the Vector (default) skin for better readability on most browsers, so if anyone has tweaked their browser for larger text, this probably won't be necessary when MW 1.23 is installed.
4. I have tested development builds of MW 1.23 and none of our currently enabled ATT site features should break, but please report any issues ASAP to Orain staff or myself once they upgrade.
P.S. - Since I'm really lazy and don't like to have to keep typing out commonly used items what I don't have to, I added some generic text based emoticons you can add by clicking on them on the toolbar below the edit window.
Posts: 461
Threads: 9
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation:
0
I've been thinking lately:
One thing that I recommend we do, once we acquire the ability to make it happen, is to make a mobile version of ATT. After all, mobile devices are extremely popular these days, and Wikipedia at least has a mobile version of its website. Like I said, this'll likely have to wait until we have the ability to make it happen (assuming we don't have it already).
Posts: 27,614
Threads: 2,271
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
21
What goes up...
05-12-2014, 06:34 PM
...must come down again. Like Orain. Once more.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Posts: 1,746
Threads: 7
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation:
3
Bob Schroeck Wrote:...must come down again. Like Orain. Once more.
We're back up again.
Posts: 25,592
Threads: 2,060
Joined: Feb 2005
Reputation:
12
Spinning wheel, 'round and 'round...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Posts: 3,706
Threads: 95
Joined: May 2012
Reputation:
9
Yeah, sorry. On the webserver, someone forgot to empty /dev/null, and the bitbucket overflowed. They're still finding ones all over the floor.
Actually, someone forgot to pay the server bill. And the European devs couldn't get access to the account to pay the bill until the Canadians woke up. This shit has got to stop.
-- ∇×V
Posts: 1,746
Threads: 7
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation:
3
vorticity Wrote:Yeah, sorry. On the webserver, someone forgot to empty /dev/null, and the bitbucket overflowed. They're still finding ones all over the floor.
Actually, someone forgot to pay the server bill. And the European devs couldn't get access to the account to pay the bill until the Canadians woke up. This shit has got to stop.
Amen, Brent. I've already given the Orain guys an earful about this myself (hopefully they'll listen).
In other news, it seems our Wikia fork community wants a content dump of ATT so they aren't screwed over when ATT goes down, since that's one of the main places they import content from, and since many of our ATT members heard about ATT on Wikia (and love BOTH wikis), I feel compelled to help both communities prosper (since both are the only alternatives people fed up with TV Tropes have for troping), so I am strongly considering letting them have a current revision copy of our May 2012 content to fill in most of the blanks on the Wikia mirror.
Bob: Sent you an email with more information on this, awaiting your response, as I have already discussed this with Brent (and he advised me to seek your opinion). I was also considering renaming the Tropes Mirror Wiki to All The Tropes as well (since it's basically ATT on Wikia in all but name already), again, more details in that memo I emailed you, look forward to your opinion on the matter.
In technical news, I have been testing the MW 1.23 RC0 to see if anything will break when we upgrade to that (since there are some database changes), and thankfully it doesn't look like what we have so far is going to break, more news when the stable release comes out.
Posts: 27,614
Threads: 2,271
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
21
Geth, I replied to your email earlier this morning, if you haven't looked at your inbox in the last couple hours. Executive Summary: 'sokay with me.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Posts: 1,746
Threads: 7
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation:
3
Got it, replied, already sent off an email to Wikia to set things up.
Posts: 3,706
Threads: 95
Joined: May 2012
Reputation:
9
Posts: 1,746
Threads: 7
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation:
3
Wikia is going to import that content dump over the next 2-3 weeks.
I plan to mostly work on that, but if anyone here is a Wikia member and wants to help me cleanup the place after the import, I'd appreciate the assistance 
More info here:
http://tropes.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:53746
Posts: 27,614
Threads: 2,271
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
21
Mm. Read those threads, Brent, and one item at metafilter reminded me -- we really do have to actually write something for that history page which is still a redlink.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Posts: 3,706
Threads: 95
Joined: May 2012
Reputation:
9
Post generally @Bob: Hey, just to let you know, I wasn't trying to pull rank on the policy pages or anything. And that wasn't a rebuke, just a difference of opinion.
I think it's because I come from a different world where this kind of thing is common. When I wrote my first Perl 6 module, I got commit access to just about everything Perl 6 related, from the website to some of the compiler's core. Just for showing up and trying to contribute, pretty much. In a wiki or repo, if things get screwed up, you just revert them and it's no sweat. That's the kind of open, collaborative atmosphere I'd like to encourage for as long as possible. (And eventually we'll get a Life Sciences Division to defictionalize some dinosaur tropes!) (I'd like reduce all of the site rules to "Do as thou wilt" but I don't think enough people understand their true will.)
All The Tropes:History isn't a redlink any more, but...
Anyway, I was thinking about your "Unicorn in the Garden" rule page, and a couple of questions came up. First ... is that a trope? I'm watching Rose of Versailles right now, and the premise that Oscar is a girl raised as a boy who becomes a royal guard is about as likely as a unicorn in 18th century France, and comes up early on. Is it just a writing guide page, or an aspect of the premise, or a full trope page?
Second question is "WTH do we not have a page on 'Premise'?" TVT doesn't have one either. We are really, really lacking on first principles of writing. Anyway, everyone please contribute to that so we can launch it right away, or let me know if we have it under a weird name. Either way, we're gonna beat TVT on this one.
-- ∇×V
Posts: 27,614
Threads: 2,271
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
21
No worries, Brent. It's just that I had a sudden mental image of a vandal hitting the policy pages. But hell, they're just as revertable as any other pages.
I don't think "The Unicorn in the Garden Rule" really is a trope, but more a metatrope. It's a rule for constructing a story where tropes are what you construct a story with. It definitely ties in with Premise -- good catch, as I didn't even think of that; it's a rule for building solid premises.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
|
