All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part III
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All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part III
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 vorticity Wrote:@Tennie: Are you sure that The Fanfiction Forum is even a real website? All I get is an error when I go to their front page. I did mention that you'd need to register an account to even read the forum. But that's something that is easily done--I already have an account there. The error is what you'd see if you weren't signed in. 
Registered an account, left a message with an admin asking if I could discuss my blog post and our site, and if so, where, will tell you more when I get a response.
Hmmmmm...
When one edits a page on ATT, one briefly sees a confirmation box with a check-mark and a short, reassuring message. Except... the message currently reads "" Did somebody delete a template that shouldn't have been deleted? -- Rob Kelk "Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of the same sovereign, servants of the same law." - Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Nah, the site cache is having some issues.
An upgrade is being planned very soon to address this. 
That's the software's way of thanking you, .
-- ∇×V 
Okay, I've just created http://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/All ... ed_Article]a page where you can nominate pages for inclusion in the new Featured Article feature on the main page. Just in case anyone, like, wants to nominate something they haven't spotted in the rotation yet.
-- Bob --------- Then the horns kicked in... ...and my shoes began to squeak.
Ok, finally got a response back to my thread on how TV Tropes' screws over fanfic authors.
Somewhat disappointingly, not many seem to grasp the seriousness or gravity of my warnings, but on their IRC channel they were polite enough to hear me out, and they do agree that the cyberstalking crap (that JesuOtaku had to deal with) and copyright crap (that Bob had to deal with) are pretty terrible. Anyway, good job with the featured article nominations page, and I'll inform everyone what our upgrade path is going to be (still appears to be the WMF MW build instead of 1.23.2) when I get the news, as there are some minor yet noticeable typography changes to the Vector skin in the latest builds, though nothing that can't be reverted with some CSS tweaks.
Hey, if anyone here edits over at Wikipedia, I started a minor thread about replacing TVT references with ATT references.
On a definitely, totally not related note, have you ever thought about how certain kinds of conflicts inevitably still occur in mutually assured destruction scenarios? So long as the scope is narrow enough, it never comes close to justifying the use of the nuclear option. Yet the Cold War was lost and won over those kinds of conflicts. Sorry, just randomly chatting about some poli sci/i18n relations. -- ∇×V vorticity Wrote:Hey, if anyone here edits over at Wikipedia, I started a minor thread about replacing TVT references with ATT references.I rather expected the rest of that conversation would happen. Consensus appears to be to mark all links to TVT and ATT with {{dubious|reason=Questionable source}} , except for links discussing the wikis themselves. -- Rob Kelk "Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of the same sovereign, servants of the same law." - Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
If TVT links are only marked with "questionable source", then I'm going to escalate this to the office. Getting them removed would be fine, even if ATT doesn't replace them. But WMF shouldn't be inducing infringement.
-- ∇×V
Oh, one more thing. I was thinking about using a top level domain for All The Tropes. Here's what I have registered:
-- ∇×V
I'd cast my vote for "allthetropes.org", as one only needs to delete the "orain" that currently resides in between "allthetropes" and ".org".
vorticity Wrote:If TVT links are only marked with "questionable source", then I'm going to escalate this to the office. Getting them removed would be fine, even if ATT doesn't replace them. But WMF shouldn't be inducing infringement. The view appears to be to mark both TVT and ATT links that way. vorticity Wrote:Oh, one more thing. I was thinking about using a top level domain for All The Tropes. Here's what I have registered: If you've registered them all, why not use them all? . And now for something completely different: I created "Category:TVTropes Troper Page" earlier today. GethN7 has already noticed it and is using it the way I hoped it would be used - one person does the identification work, another double-checks the identified pages and does the deletions. I think I've tagged all of the Troper pages that aren't linking to other ATT pages... but if there are Toper pages that link to other pages, I wouldn't have seen them by the process I was using. -- Rob Kelk "Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of the same sovereign, servants of the same law." - Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
@robkelk: thanks for the new category, makes cleanup a lot easier
 Second as for the Wikipedia thing, I'm astounded at the conclusions they are reaching. They are apparantly at the consensus TVT links/citations should not be allowed at all, but the reasons are for WP policy, not legality, even though both apply (regardless, their focus only seems to be on the first item) Further, maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt anyone is actually going over the pages where the links/citations are used and why, merely seeing it's a wiki link and falling back on policy reasons why it shouldn't exist at all. I also doubt anyone is actually checking to see if TV Tropes really is in violation of copyright/licensing, as that already seems to be ignored althougth it would seem to me to be quite relevant to the topic at hand...... Basically, I'm throwing my hands up in air here at this point on that.
The new logo is very nice.
And I second "allthetropes.org" as our "real" domain -- though I don't doubt that Brent will have all the others pointing at it, Rob. -- Bob --------- Then the horns kicked in... ...and my shoes began to squeak.
*Dr.Farnsworth voice*: GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE!
Seriously, I just discovered a possible way to implement a "Related pages" feature like on TV Tropes, only it works on a page by page basis and adds them to a list on the sidebar. (tested in Vector, should work on other standard skins), and it can be configured/enabled with a very simple template. (saw this on WikiVoyage) Also, discovered an extension that would allow users to set a flag in their user preferences to indicate if they are online or not (useful for when you don't log out at all but need to leave the computer for long stretches of time), which will show a "User is/is not online" message on their user pages. Still plan to add the extension Dynamic Sidebar (contingency plan for if we have Beta Features Compact User Bar installed in the future, which doesn't include the Admin Links options for admins, also adds custom user bar features to ordinary tropers) Filed issues for all the above. I also reorganized the side bar links, main page, and recent changes text to be more condensed and use the Tabs extension in the latter's case. If anyone spots any other features we could jazz up with a extension, template, and so on, let me know. Update; We will soon have a Dutch version of All The Tropes!
That all sounds great!
I've personally been making my way intermittently through everything stashed under the "Orphaned" namespace (and eventually I'll check everything tagged with "checknamespace"). In the process of this, I just discovered that we had three somewhat different templates for fanfic recommendations pages, in three different locations (and one "orphaned"). I merged the best features of the three, updated the page creation template for Fanfic Recs, created an independent copy of the template hanging off of "Fanfic Recommendations", and historicaled the one which is obviously the original TVT template. As for wish list items -- I wish some of our users would make "Featured Article" nominations! The current selection is very biased toward the tastes of the admins. -- Bob --------- Then the horns kicked in... ...and my shoes began to squeak.
A couple more places that I think ought to hear the message about TVT's problems and ATT's existance in response to those problems would be SpaceBattles and its spinoff site, Sufficient Velocity (more specifically, their creative writing-related sections). SpaceBattles recently reinstated registration (they had to take it down for a couple of months due to an annoyingly persistent spammer, but that problem now seems to have been dealt with--knock on wood!), so that shouldn't be a problem. Besides, every so often someone would post a thread related to TVT, so I figured that they should hear about TVT's copyright issues and how ATT won't do anything like that!
I'll be adding an announcement on the wiki proper soon, but here is a brief overview of the four new extensions I have added:
Disambiguator: Adds a magic word that added an internal tag for disambiguation pages, viewable on a special page. Add so we can see exactly how many Disambiguation pages we are (more accurate than just having a category). Custom Data: Dependency for the next extension. Related Pages: An extension used on WikiVoyage. Powerless on it's own, when a template that hooks into it called {{related|tropename}} is added (more than one can be added to a page), it will add related pages to a section on the sidebar on a per page basis. This is meant to mimic the "Related pages" feature on TV Tropes. Online Status: A new option has been added to user preferences that will allow a user to set their "online status as online/offline and have the appropriate message display as a subtitle under your user name on your user page. Meant for those who leave their computers on all the time or stay logged in most of the time but want to let other know when they are/aren't available. Well also soon be establishing interwiki links between ourselves and our newly established dutch counterpart, so any page that has a different language version will show up as an interwiki link on the sidebar in it's own Languages section (like on Wikipedia). http://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/Beauty_Is_Bad (see this page for a demonstration of our new Related Pages functionality. Tennie Wrote:A couple more places that I think ought to hear the message about TVT's problems and ATT's existance in response to those problems would be SpaceBattles and its spinoff site, Sufficient Velocity (more specifically, their creative writing-related sections). SpaceBattles recently reinstated registration (they had to take it down for a couple of months due to an annoyingly persistent spammer, but that problem now seems to have been dealt with--knock on wood!), so that shouldn't be a problem. Besides, every so often someone would post a thread related to TVT, so I figured that they should hear about TVT's copyright issues and how ATT won't do anything like that!If you want to get people interested in ATT, use it (gotta eat our own lunch if we want anyone else to) and talk about how good it is. Save the trash talk of other tropes sites for Something Awful. IMHO, of course. EDIT: Refresh my memory, please... Looking at http://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/Special:WantedPages]the Wanted Pages list, I see dozens if not hundreds of pages that could be filled by copying a description from Wikipedia and building the list of tropes or works from the pages that link to the wanted pages. Would doing so be legal? Would it be a good idea? -- Rob Kelk "Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of the same sovereign, servants of the same law." - Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012 robkelk Wrote:Tennie Wrote:A couple more places that I think ought to hear the message about TVT's problems and ATT's existance in response to those problems would be SpaceBattles and its spinoff site, Sufficient Velocity (more specifically, their creative writing-related sections). SpaceBattles recently reinstated registration (they had to take it down for a couple of months due to an annoyingly persistent spammer, but that problem now seems to have been dealt with--knock on wood!), so that shouldn't be a problem. Besides, every so often someone would post a thread related to TVT, so I figured that they should hear about TVT's copyright issues and how ATT won't do anything like that!If you want to get people interested in ATT, use it (gotta eat our own lunch if we want anyone else to) and talk about how good it is. Save the trash talk of other tropes sites for Something Awful. http://allthetropes.orain.org/w/index. ... on=history It's a major advantage we have over TV Tropes. As long we attribute the source in a reasonable manner (citing the source URL bare minimum in the edit reasons or in a commented out note on the page, though I prefer the former), we fulfill the attribution clause of CC BY SA. Since we use the CC BY SA 4.0 license (which is backwards compatible with CC BY SA 3.0), we also fulfill the Share Alike clause. We can use Wikipedia content as a base for a page (in whole or in part, so long as we cite the source), then tropify it. As to the matter of trash talking them, the Fuck No TV Tropes Tumblr does a far better job of that then we have to. In fact, TVT loyalists are currently writhing in agony over whether the page they have on that blog deserves to live, knowing they are damned if they keep it (it violates the no negativity rules and promotes the dissing of Fast Eddie's Glorious People's Republic of Troping), and damned if they delete it (as it will just confirm the public perception they cannot tolerate criticism). In fact, they are damned even if the page is locked, since that means they get the worst of both outcomes. They also realize now that Google can be used against them by anyone who stumble across an offending page, and they are powerless to prevent or reverse it due to Fast Eddie's desire to prostitute the site for ad money. Basically, my plan is just be quietly amused they are in pawn to their own lousy PR and Fast Eddie's apparent greed and continue working on making ATT a much more worthy successor to the very Broken Pedestal that preceded it.
No one checks the copyrights page... http://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/All ... _Tropes.3F
Actually, I specifically addressed copying from Wikipedia here: http://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/All ... _TV_TropesThat is not the most useful place, I'll admit. I do think Rob has a point, and it's at least partially addressed by the link above. We've gotten too caught up in the things that are negative about our opponents. No wonder I've been feeling that icky sensation like I'm back in politics again. What's awesome about our site is something I need to work on promoting. Let me see, what do we have?
-- ∇×V
I hope this isn't because of something I did... (I just moved a new page.) I'm getting "[21e24cae] 2014-08-08 00:41:17: Fatal exception of type MWException" (adjusting the time appropriately) whenever I try to load any pages.
EDIT: Never mind - it's back. RE-EDIT: This really is a problem. I wanted to create a YMMV subpage for Fenspace, so I went to the page, clicked on "Create New", and clicked on YMMV. This is what I got: ![[Image: oops.jpg]](http://web.ncf.ca/fm536/tempstuff/oops.jpg) I backed out of that. Quickly. I created the subpage a different way, but this way needs to be fixed for everyone else. -- Rob Kelk "Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of the same sovereign, servants of the same law." - Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Damn, I thought I fixed that. Oh well, site is down now, maybe tomorrow?
-- ∇×V
Maybe the fix is still cached...?
-- Rob Kelk "Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of the same sovereign, servants of the same law." - Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012 |
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