Non-Anime Steps

[Bob Schroeck]

When I first laid out the itinerary for the Walk, I very intentionally mixed equal amounts of anime and non-anime destinations. I did not want it to become an all-anime work, as I felt that would limit its potential audience, and besides, some of the non-anime places I wanted to send him were fun. At the moment, though, the Buckaroo Banzai Step (DW4) is the only survivor of that part of the original batch of worlds.
In the last couple months, though, Peggy and I have talked about other possible destinations, mainly in the context of the very highly hypothetical sequel series Drunkard's Vacation, which would send Doug and Shadowwalker bouncing together around several universes intentionally. At the moment, my two particular favorite destinations for these discussions are engaging my imagination so strongly that I might move them into the Walk (although to do so I'd have to remove Maggie, and that would annoy Peggy no end). Just as a teaser, they are:
1. The turn-of-the-century Egypt of Elizabeth Peters' "Amelia Peabody Emerson" books. If you're familiar with these, I'm thinking of setting it at a point somewhere during Nefret and Ramses' mutual teenage years. I've been looking forward to a confrontation between an annoyed Doug and a couple of (retired) Egyptian gods who think he's such a nice boy...
2. The Chicago of the "Bishop Blackie" mysteries by Andrew Greeley. This one would be a fun challenge, because I'm planning on Doug playing it very very low key here -- no obvious metapower usage, although there will be some questions his presence will raise that Blackie Ryan will never quite be able to resolve. Since this universe is the same as that in Greeley's "Angels" books, there are godlike creatures at work in it -- vast, multidimensional beings who sound a whole lot like the gods of my cosmology, only on a lesser scale -- and Doug may well draw their attention.
(Edit: I really do know how to spell "Egyptian", honestly.)


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[Logan Darklighter]

One book that jumps to mind is "American Gods", although I can't remember the author.
The idea is that Gods are literally created through belief. Iceland for instance, there's a being called Odin who exists because belief in him is strong. But when settlers traveled across the ocean to settle in the Americas, the seemed to take Odin with them. In reality, they took a *new* god with them, who seemed to embody everything Odin was.
The book deals with the modern age, in which the old religions are all but gone. The gods man brought with him to America are living quiet lives around other humans, their power little more than immortality and a few simple tricks. The new gods are things like "Radio", "Television", and "Capitalism". And the Gods which came into existance in America to embody those beliefs are very strong indeed. (Although Radio looks a little frayed, and a little desperate. People aren't believing in him like they used to, and he's afraid he'll be lumped in with the other older Gods.)
The book deals with a plot by the American Odin to kill all the other gods and absorb their fractional remaining power in a bid to keep himself alive. I mention him as the "American Odin", because after *he* gets it, the protagonist travels to Iceland and meets the original Odin, who does not recognize him.
The idea here I think is that the version that came across the water was altered as our images of the old gods altered. So Odin in America becan the "Americanized" view of Odin, instead of what he's seen as in Iceland. The same happened to all the others.
Doug being in a reality where godhood is altered by human perception, yet has the power to shape that perception in return would be a serious culture shock to him, I think. It would suggest that while some gods may exist in pan-dimensional time-share slices of themselves, others might not, and there could be more to how various gods manifest and exist than he originally thought.

[Scrambler]

Perhaps a few video game worlds would work. Some of the Final Fantasy series would be fun to drop him into. Even if only for his reaction to how things work there. For FF8 I can imagine him saying something like "So the people in charge of protecting this world are _mercenaries_?!" He might even find the place reminiscent of home in that people actually use magic and technology in conjunction.

[jpub]

American Gods is by Neil Gaiman.
A better novel of his to look at would be Neverwhere which tells of a man's discovery of an "underworld" of magic that exists under/beside our current one. Also, some of the religious references in the world might amuse Doug.
I do highly recommend them both to your reading, Bob.
--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel

[Bob Schroeck]

I read American Gods just this past fall, actually -- I took a copy along with me when we went down to Myrtle Beach, SC in September to enjoy the near-miss of Hurricane Isabel, and finished it off lounging by the pool during one of the last sunny days before the hurricane swept by. It would indeed be an odd world to stick Doug in, but a plot that doesn't screw up the action of the book would have to occur to me first.
I have not yet read Neverwhere. It is, however, on my list of books to buy that sits underneath the "unread" pile on my nightstand.


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[Disruptor]

Maybe Doug can pop into the DCU and try to reunite Linda, Kal-el, and Ariella
Maybe his appearance and influence adds a bit more leverage to prevent the Crisis.
Well, there is Lensman and Skylark from E.E. Doc Smith. Not the anime, the novels.
Moorcock's Eternal Champion worlds(Corum, Elric, Hawkmoon, Erekose, etc.)
There's also Pelludicar by the person who wrote Tarzan.
If you want to hit non-novels, various rpg worlds:
Talislanta
Castle Falkenstein
Dragonlance
Shadowrun
Torg
Rache Bartmoss' Guide to the Net for Cyberpunk(Pick that book up. Rache is even more deranged than Doug)
I'd love to see Rache and Doug meet.
--------------------
Tom Mathews aka Disruptor

[classicdrogn]

For mythologizing book suggestions, I'll add _Pyramid Scheme_ to the list - it's published by Baen, but is available as an e-book - either in their Free Library or as part of Webscriptions. Given that my favorite authors are in Webscriptions and have told Eric Flint that they love it, I have no qualms about pimpin' t whenever I get the chance.
As to relocating some Vacation steps to the Walk, why? We all know Doug's going to get back SOMETIME, I don't think having the future be now as well as now being now would be a major problem.
- CD
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[Kokuten]

honorverse?
There's a book called _pyramid scheme_, I believe it's by John Ringo.. It's universe would be a wonderful place for Doug
--- Kokuten Daysleeper, Retired Epicced Officered DorfWire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[zojojojo]

Edit: fix formating and add definition of honorverse
honorverse?
setting for the honor harrington novels by david weber
there's not really a lot for him to do there... he'd be next to useless on a ship, he's not terribly political as far as i can tell, and any use of his meta-powers would probably get him a rerun of Genom... unless he's on Grayson, which would probably get him lynched or targeted for assassination by the religous fanatics which seem to be everywhere there... but the main problem is that none of the action happens anywhere hear Earth.
maybe he could go to a world of darkness-type place, where the vampires exist, but aren't all bad and certainly aren't out to infect the world.[/u]-Z, Post-reader at Medium
----
If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.
-Z, Post-reader at Medium
----
If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.

[Bob Schroeck]

The "Honorverse" is almost certainly the setting of the various "Honor Harrington" books, which -- though apparently great SF -- I've never read.
Haven't heard of Pyramid Scheme, but just from the title I can guess it's fun. I'll have to go look for it.


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[Bob Schroeck]

---

Maybe Doug can pop into the DCU and try to reunite Linda, Kal-el, and Ariella

---

"Ariella"? I've been away from collecting (or even reading) comics for more than a decade -- did they add someone new to the Superman mythos?

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Maybe his appearance and influence adds a bit more leverage to prevent the Crisis.

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Which Crisis? I've been told recently that DC has begun to ignore the Crisis On The Infinite Earths, which had to be the defining point for them in the late 20th century...

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There's also Pelludicar by the person who wrote Tarzan.

---

Edgar Rice Burroughs. Not a bad choice, nor Smith or Moorcock, at that... Doug would go nuts trying to understand the technology of the Lensmen world. "Okay, let's start over. What the hell's a 'Q-type vortex' again?" He's probably a bit too dark (of all things) for a Lensman to be comfortable working with him, though.
As for RPG worlds, that reminds me that I wanted to drop Doug into our Shadowrun campaign, where he could meet Peggy's Cat-Shaman-Who-Thinks-She's-An-Egyptian-Priestess, and my Jewish street samurai.
Never heard of Rache Bartmoss. Time to search the net a bit, I guess...


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[jpub]

Pyramid Scheme is by Eric Flint. Check out his book Philosophical Strangler or his Belesarius series.
I would say that any of the Eternal Champion books is a BAD choice. By their very nature they're all tragic, and Doug would fit in there like a 3-ring circus at a state funeral. For one thing, he has too much HOPE.
Now, if we're putting forward suggestions:
Edding's Books: Belgariad/Mallorean are cliche, but would be fun. An alternate that might be more entertaining considering Doug's opinions on gods would be the Elenium/Tamuli books.
Black Jewels Trilogy: The blatant Satanic/Demonic imagery in this series by Anne Bishop would really mess up Doug. (Good series, but definitely rated Mature and DARK.)
Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever: A jump by Doug into the aftermath of the second series could be entertaining.

Okay, I better stop before I really get silly.
I read a lot okay?
--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel

[jpub]

Re: Lensman
Doug would find the Lensman worlds intollerable. The Lensman world is sterile - people are either the best/brightest, or the worst/darkest. An ordinary (or even extraordinary) person would find that universe incredibly hostile to him.
(Paraphrased from one of the intros to the edition I own)--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel

[The Wanderer]

Commenting randomly...
"Neverwhere" is indeed highly recommended; I like it rather more than "American Gods", and agree that it would make a better setting for a Step than would the other, both for general reasons and for the slightly more open-ended nature of the ending as best I recall it.
I'd thought I'd read "Pyramid Scheme" from the Library, but looking at my locally-archived copy I'm not sure I have yet - wait, a bell just rung; I remember it now, but I don't think I ever finished it, though I forget why I stopped reading. I loved "The Philosophical Strangler" (also available through the Library), though, and eagerly look forwards to getting my hands on the sequel and any following; it would certainly be an *interesting* place for Doug to end up, although getting a sufficient handle on the universe to write it well would be quite a trick.

---

Doug would go nuts trying to understand the technology of the Lensmen world. "Okay, let's start over. What the hell's a 'Q-type vortex' again?" He's probably a bit too dark (of all things) for a Lensman to be comfortable working with him, though.

---

That's "helix", actually. And no, they might not be comfortable working with him (though they might surprise you), but there's also the question of what *he*'d think of a society in which the only real government is a quasi-military organization whose every member can read minds and whose upper-echelon members can do considerably more than that? Sure, they're fundamentally incorruptible, but Doug wouldn't know that at first... and would probably have a hard time believing it in any case.
I'm not sure what Doug might do in the world of the Belgariad and Malloreon; the only interest I see there offhand is his response to that take on gods (and how would Errand/Eriond show up on magesight, before the end of the series?) Likewise for the Elenium and Tamuli, though I'll admit I'd like to see how he'd get along with Aphrael, or for that matter with Bhelliom.
I ran across the Black Jewels trilogy in a bookstore a little bit back, but didn't have the money, and haven't been able to dig it out of the local library system; it looked interesting, though, despite my usual allergy to too much darkness in my fiction.
I'd *love* to see Doug in the Land - but I'd note that the Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever end without resolving everything, and indeed with the strong implication that there *will* be a sequel; Stephen R. Donaldson hasn't gone back there since, much to my disappointment, but he's still writing and the possibility remains that he might decide to reopen the franchise. (I wonder if there might be anything interesting in putting Doug in the world of "Mordant's Need"? I don't really think so, but it's been a while since I read the series, and my memory is blurry...)

[Disruptor]

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"Ariella"? I've been away from collecting (or even reading) comics for more than a decade -- did they add someone new to the Superman mythos?

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In the end of the recent Supergirl series, the current Supergirl(A human by the name of Linda Davners) tried to take Kara Zor-El's place in time. It didn't quite work. Supergirl wound up marrying Superman and having a daughter(Areilla). Hal Jordan the Spectre(I'm not joking) told Linda that Kara had to be returned to her place in time to prevent the Anti-Monitor from destroying all of reality. Hal put Ariella into the DC 1 Million timeline and Linda is back in the main timeline. That family is broken up across three timelines.

---

Which Crisis? I've been told recently that DC has begun to ignore the Crisis On The Infinite Earths, which had to be the defining point for them in the late 20th century...

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Crisis on infinite Earths. If they ignored it, they wouldn't constantly refer to Barry or try to bring pre-Crisis Supergirl into the present.
Rache Bartmoss?
'Rache Bartmoss' Guide to the Net' is the title of the Cyberpunk supplement.
I want to know what the person who wrote that book was on. It gets that screwy. Hunting dolphiins with an exploding can of tuna and other weird stuff
--------------------
Tom Mathews aka Disruptor

[offsides]

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That's "helix", actually. And no, they might not be comfortable working with him (though they might surprise you), but there's also the question of what *he*'d think of a society in which the only real government is a quasi-military organization whose every member can read minds and whose upper-echelon members can do considerably more than that? Sure, they're fundamentally incorruptible, but Doug wouldn't know that at first... and would probably have a hard time believing it in any case.

---

Taking a guess:
"So you're not Gods, you just play them in real life... Right..."
I'm guessing that doug would politely excuse himself, find a gate song (_any_ gate song), and get the hell out of there before they decided he was a problem that had to be dealt with.
(Please note I've never read any of the lensmen books, but based on what has been posted in this thread alone that's what _I'd_ do too... Light and Dark are never absolutes (saith the physicist )
Offsides
Drunkard's Walk Forum Moderator and Prereader At Large

[Bob Schroeck]

---

"So you're not Gods, you just play them in real life... Right..."
I'm guessing that doug would politely excuse himself, find a gate song (_any_ gate song), and get the hell out of there before they decided he was a problem that had to be dealt with.

---

He'd probably not notice immediately that he might be considered a problem, but yeah... Depends on where he arrives to begin with; non-Lensfolk are almost certainly to be the same as people everywhere, except maybe a tad happier, a tad more honest and law-abiding than he's probably familiar with. He wouldn't necessarily view this as a bad thing. He probably would have problems with the Lensmen, and perceive their attitude as possibly unsupported arrogance. (How's that shoe feel on the other foot, now, Dougie-boy? ) Doug's as big a believer in absolute good as Madigan (), but would more or less instinctively distrust any individuals who claim -- either explicitly or implicitly -- to represent or embody it. And he knows that, historically, people with power and absolute certainty about their opinions have had little patience or love for people who raise uncomfortable questions about them. Once he realized this, Doug would certainly do his best to disappear before someone did it for him.

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Light and Dark are never absolutes (saith the physicist )

---

Hm. Why can't dark be an absolute? Surely entropy says that it is...
(Just being a troublemaker. )


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[The Wanderer]

---

The Lensman world is sterile - people are either the best/brightest, or the worst/darkest.

---

Actually, I think that's a misperception, coming from the (if you'll forgive the usage) lens through which we view that world.
The Lensmen are, yes, the best and the brightest - but they're also, explicitly, the result of an extremely discriminating selection process; anyone who isn't the best and the brightest washes out before receiving a Lens. For perspective, when the First Lensman was setting out to create the Galactic Patrol, IIRC he foundfewer than a dozen individuals of Lensman grade in the entire systemwide human race of the time. (I'd check the exact number, but I don't have the book handy.)
Likewise, most of the bad guys of whom we see enough to be able to make that sort of judgment are upper-echelon, hardcore Boskonians; the worst and the darkest are about the only ones likely to make it that far. There are a few exceptions there, too, of bad guys becoming good guys or showing not-wholly-bad traits (though fewer of the latter than the former). By and large, however, it's just that because of the nature of the events involved we don't get to *see* much of the more ordinary people; a few of them show up here and there, but for the most part they don't have occasion to come onscreen.

[classicdrogn]

The best example I can think of of 'everyday badguys' in the Lensmen series is probably the weed-harvesting crew the lead character ends up with when he's trying to bust up their drug ring - they're involved in an operation whose end result is poison and destroyed lives, they know it and they don't really care, but their general attitudes and concern within the team could be any random group of mercenaries, even gold-rush miners.
- CD
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[offsides]

---

Hm. Why can't dark be an absolute? Surely entropy says that it is...

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Because, entropy is always increasing - absolute implies that it's static

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(Just being a troublemaker. )

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Nu?
Offsides
Drunkard's Walk Forum Moderator and Prereader At Large

[Foxboy]

Howzabout "I Dream of Jeannie?"
---
I Had been here in this backwards version of homeline for six weeks already when I felt it for the first time. A sudden peak in the local mana level. After several peaks daily, I was finally able to track it down to this lovely little home in the middle of Coco Beach, Florida.
My research indicated that this was the home of an Astronaut that had recently been recovered from a deserted island in the Pacific. Therefore, I needed to be cautious about approaching this potential magical being.
---
Just a little idea. Meh.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[Bob Schroeck]

Now that's a weird suggestion... If I were to start mining 60s sitcoms, though, I'd probably go for the Addams Family...


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[Ebony]

---

Now that's a weird suggestion... If I were to start mining 60s sitcoms, though, I'd probably go for the Addams Family...

---

I would think that "The Man From U.N.C.L.E.," "The Avengers," or "Wild, Wild West" would be better picks. Although the last one might be a bit odd.
West: "You work for the United Who?"
Doug: "The United Nations."
Gordon: "There's no such thing."
Doug: "And you guys are supposed to only be chasing down counterfeiters. What's your point?"
[ObTrivia: The United States Secret Service was originally formed to investigate and arrest counterfeiters. They were not assigned to bodyguard the Executive Branch and their families until 1902, after the assasination of President McKinley.]
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."

[Kokuten]

Forward The Mage. (the sequel to The Philisophical Strangler).
It's crap. It really really is. Here, let me put my megabytes where my mouth is. The following links are LEGAL, FULL copies of the book indicated by their title, in fairly universal .RTF format.

Pyramid Scheme

The Philosophical Strangler
Forward The Mage

--- Kokuten Daysleeper, Retired Epicced Officered DorfWire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[jpub]

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Light and Dark are never absolutes (saith the physicist )

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Uh guys, you're missing the point of the Lensman novels. In the Lensman universe light and dark are absolutes. There is no middle ground anywhere. You're either a saint or a devil.
Edit: Missed Wanderer's response, but my response to that is merely "When was the last time you read the books?" I went through them recenlt (having picked up on them due to UF's use of the concept) and my concept was the above. The universe of the Lensman stories IS absolute in every concept.--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel