Webpage Prototype

[Bob Schroeck]

Yes, I've been a busy little developer these last couple days. This link will take you to a prototype page for the Fenspace archive. It has the rotating banners discussed in another thread (and I'll be adding more, don't you worry). The menu is functional although it doesn't link to any other Fenspace pages yet -- it's also just an eval, which is why the company that makes it forces itself into the first entry. I'm still looking for something that does just what I want it to, and this may not be it -- it's just a placeholder for the moment.
Anyway, there's enough there for folks to get an idea of what I had in mind, and to kibitz on the design. So... go look, and come back to kibitz.

-- Bob
---------
The Internet Is For Norns.

[M Fnord]

Hm. Nice & simple enough design. The menubar's okay, though the whole eval thing is kind of annoying. A quick glance at google suggests there aren't any good prepackaged freeware menubars. This bit at BrainJar is a pretty good tutorial for writing a basic one from scratch, though.---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[CattyNebulart]

I hate the menubar sufficiently that I will write a replacement.
Edit: try this example. Not quite happy with it, but it's better than what is currently in use. Haven't tested it with IE, if it breaks tell me I know how to fix it.
itu.dk/~dwalter/fenspace/page.html
As for good free menubars try:
onlinetools.org/tools/yadm/index.html
or if you are a CSS purits:
www.pixy.cz/blogg/clanky/csshiermenu/
And if you want a simple one:
phoenity.com/newtedge/horizontal_nav/
The last one is the one I recomend if you want to mess around with it a bit on your own bob. And if you need help I am available.
if you want mine to look nicer you might want to use 'background-image:' to add background images to some of the elements.
Edit: Well thanks to drakensis it's been tested under IE. and of course it doesn't work. There is a lot more broken than I remember being broken. So much I don't quite know what to do.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

[Bob Schroeck]

---

This bit at BrainJar is a pretty good tutorial for writing a basic one from scratch, though.

---

Looks interesting. I'll have to go through that when I have a little free time tonight or today. Thanks!

-- Bob
---------
The Internet Is For Norns.

[Bob Schroeck]

---

I hate the menubar sufficiently that I will write a replacement.

---

Thank you, Catty, both for the menu and the links. The menu does break on IE -- the menu entries are stacked vertically and the non-container buttons stretch all the way across the screen with the little icon outside of the colored area.
I think I'll try some of the stuff from your other links -- I've saved some of the code and I'll play with it later today.
Thanks again!

-- Bob
---------
The Internet Is For Norns.

[Bob Schroeck]

Update. I've got a new version of the prototype using the Suckerfish menu system up at the address above. Since the only problem I have with the results is how wide the dropdown menus are, I think I'm pretty much on the road to setting this thing up properly.
And on that topic, the content of the main page has been on my mind... and I'm thinking that I would like to do something along the lines of the fifth season intro to Babylon 5 -- a welter of voices painting a coherent picture of the 'Wave Age. I'd like at least some of those voices to be those of various established characters.
I'll write up a little something later and post it to give a better idea of what I have in mind, and if folks like it, you can all throw your bits in.

-- Bob
---------
The Internet Is For Norns.

[M Fnord]

WOAH! I don't know what's up, but in Firefox 2 that dropdown menu is pretty badly broken:
---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Morganite]

Similiar look in firefox here, both with and without javascript. Looks more like a dropdown menu in IE. Maybe it's dependent on one of those things IE does that it shouldn't, or something. '.'
Since it's usable with javascript turned off, it's acceptable to me...
-Morgan, is anti-javascript."This continuity is now a Princess of Darkness crossover."
"... They're all going to die, aren't they?"
"Yep. Popcorn?"

[Kokuten]

also broken under FireChicken 1.0.7Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[CattyNebulart]

Well Mford has a less broken version that I have... by the way what do people have against white pages with black text? It's the easiest to read. Granted white text on a black background is the second easiest, but still why settle for second best.
also I don't mind the links as a list at the top of the page, or as a bar in a table, instead of those cascading menu's but that might be a byproduct on me desinging websites that where legaly requiered to follow section 508. (they didn't but not for lack of trying on my part. Stupid customers.)
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

[Kokuten]

voice in preference of white text black background
suggestion of _green_ text, black background.
expression of puzzlement over 'bullet point' nature of commentary.
cordial departure phrase
Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[Bob Schroeck]

And it's broken under Mozilla, too. (Not that it's a surprise given the shared codebase with Firefox et al.)
Back to the drawing board...

-- Bob
---------
The Internet Is For Norns.

[robkelk]

---

voice in preference of white text black background

---

You mean like this one?
Edit: No, of course not - that's "black text white background". I must learn to stop posting while half-asleep.
Bob, feel free to raid that for content...

-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[M Fnord]

Extremely late thought on the subject of a webpage:
How about using a wiki instead of having to slog through all the HTML for the archive pages? I mean, there are wikis out there that don't have the kind of system overhead MediaWiki likes to use, and the syntax is about as easy to figure out as ubbcode.
Frex, I'm using a wiki for my independent projects (not really MediaWiki, just an incredible simulation) and all things considered, it's a hell of a lot easier for me to move stuff to the site when I don't have to futz about with the code.
If the thought appeals, I stand ready to advise.---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Bob Schroeck]

Actually, Fnord, that thought had flittered through my mind at one point while I was working on the prototype page but I didn't follow up on it. The TVTropes site works on PMWiki, which is nice and simple and seems to be pretty good for small projects, but I don't know what it requires vis-a-vis licensing and whatnot.
There is also the problem with wikis that we will by default end up leaving the stories open for alteration or vandalization by any wandering jerk who decides to get a moment's thrill by messing with them. Any wiki software we decide on must allow us to lock pages to protect them.
As for my problems with menu development, I'd just like to note for the sake of alleviating my own embarassment that I'm using this as an opportunity to finally learn DHTML and CSS, so I'm bound to screw something up on a regular basis.
ETA: Fnord, you may want to disable that link to Fenspace on your Wiki until we actually have something there. And your Wiki looks very nice -- what are its requirements, besides PHP? Where did you find it, and does it have any licensing etc. costs?

-- Bob
---------
The Internet Is For Norns.

[M Fnord]

---

ETA: Fnord, you may want to disable that link to Fenspace on your Wiki until we actually have something there. And your Wiki looks very nice -- what are its requirements, besides PHP? Where did you find it, and does it have any licensing etc. costs?

---

The base engine is DokuWiki, which is a fairly simple wiki setup designed for personal use. For system requirements all it really needs is PHP 4.3.3+ running on the webserver, no SQL or other database systems or anything like that. DokuWiki saves all content as straight text in the obvious directory, so it's pretty easy to backup stored data. As for licensing, it's all open under GPL - no fees or upgrade costs, just be careful when it breaks.
More on DokuWiki: wiki.splitbrain.org/wiki:dokuwiki
On Monobook, the template I've got running: tatewake.com/wiki/project...r_dokuwiki---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Bob Schroeck]

After a very brief look -- but long enough to confirm it supports locking pages as read-only -- I'm thinking that DokuWiki might suit our purpose quite well. I'll take a longer look at it tonight, and maybe look into templates as well, tho' Monobook also seems to have a lot of features (as well as a pleasant look-and-feel that's going to be comfortably familiar to a lot of folks) that I'd want as well.
Thanks for the links!

-- Bob
---------
The Internet Is For Norns.

[M Fnord]

Yeah, Monobook has a nice, comfortable feel to it. It has a few drawbacks - you lose the ability to see a master list of recently changed pages, and it takes some tweaking to get a good match to MediaWiki style - but overall I'm pleased with it.
One thing I've run into that I'm not sure how to fiddle with: the banners. The rotating banner script on the current page is cool, and I had a few thoughts on maybe trying to do the same thing with the logospace on Monobook. Problem is, I can't seem to find a script to handle that rotation. I'd hate to lose the rotating banners, if only because it's a good excuse for us to be funny.---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Kokuten]

---

good excuse for us to be funny.

---

It's not the excuse we need, Mal, it's the _forum_.Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[CattyNebulart]

It should be a simple thing to modify the php scripts for the wiki to display changing banners ( I doubt I am the only php oder on the board). The beauty of open source, if it doesn't fit your requierments change it.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

[Morganite]

Since most of the image rotation scripts I've seen just have you use the location of the script in a img tag instead of the url to an image, I wouldn't think it'd be that difficult. '.'
-Morgan."This continuity is now a Princess of Darkness crossover."
"... They're all going to die, aren't they?"
"Yep. Popcorn?"

[CattyNebulart]

ah the generalists way of approaching it. That works, but it is ussualy simpler to just adjust the page in question.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

[Morganite]

Doesn't sound simpler to me. '.' I usually get heavily encouraged to componentize thing, and it usually seems like a good idea.
Besides, if you have a seperate image rotation script, you can insert the banner on static pages without having to Repeat Yourself.
-Morgan, ominous!
"Why is he a girl??"
-Hiromi