Reality-Check My Concepts? Please?

[Acyl]

I've got some serious story-writing planned for Fenspace, but I probably won't be able to do it until RL stops kicking my ass. I expect to be offline for a couple weeks or so. e_e
In the meantime, though, I've posted a few bits of information about my character, his space station, and supporting cast. I requested a reality-check for my preliminary estimates on how big his station should be in Kokuten's Land Size thread...
But I figure I should ask for opinions on some of the other stuff I've stuck in the Ship Registry and Character Profile sections:- the writeups for The Floating Island and Eric Zhu.
Potentially, er, problematic are a couple claims there. The writeup states the Island was the first Fenspace ship/station of its kind. The first to boost chunks of land into orbit. Y'know, making a building and the surrounding real estate spaceworthy, yeah?
That's there because...well, I suggested that notion in the original thread. I think. >_>; The Island also launched early in the timeline, and it's comparatively primitive (initially, only pressurised buildings and basements), as opposed to, say, what Bob's got, or what other flying houseowners have done... the only tricky thing Eric and his crew did was prove you could handwave soil with enough digging. So the assertion makes sense, but I dunno...
The other thing is Eric's biomod. It verges on the superpower side...but it does come from physical alteration to his body. He's basically, er, wireless networked. To any 'waved systems on his station.
There's also a lot of assorted weirdness about the Island, evident in its writeup. But I have reasonable explanations for most of them. Mostly revolving around the strangeness of its 'waved service droid army. They move things when people aren't looking, see.
-- Acyl

[Kokuten]

I'd have to thumbs-up it just on the cool factor of the quirk.
"I have SUCH a frigging headache, it's 4am and those !@$%! Trekkies are STILL playing that Romulan Death Metal!"

"why is the boss so happy?"
"Someone snuck a tray of marijuana into the hydroponics system"
"so he's.."
"As high as a Greatful Dead concert."
"ohboy"Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[Kokuten]

Also, a shopping mall, well, shopping malls have always appeared to be pretty damn self-contained to me, anyway. Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[Sirrocco]

Looks fine to me. You did call the "chunk of land in space" concept first - just frob the dates to make sue you're earlier than everyone else who's entered their ideas, and you're fine there. There's certainly plenty of quirk for the biomod. It's all good, really.

[Kokuten]

You know, there's plenty of _land_ in orbit, now, but there aren't two single chunks that have a similar purpose.
We've got a shopping mall, a foundry, a rural town.. what's next, a red light asteroid.
Pleased with the Universe,
-KWire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[Feinan]

*laughs* Nooo....I refuse to build Lady Sally's in space. No matter how much my mind is now insisting that it's a perfectly wonderful idea...
...And it's not as if there are laws against brothels in space, currently. Hmmm. Kokuten....you just HAD to mention this, didn't you? Somebody, please take the idea, before my mind insists that I do?

[Kokuten]

mwuahahahaWire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[classicdrogn]

Well, it's not a brothel, but I periopherally mention an animation studio in space in the Wave Convoy short I'm working on (covering the first stages of setting up the Gnarlycurl, and the financing thereof) I figured that they want to take advantage of the processing power of 'waved computers and AIs for doing 3dcg, cell-style cg, and probably voice acting as well.
- CDSERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
For the next 72 hours, Itachi intoned, I will slap you with this trout. - Spying no Jutsu, chapter 3
"In the futuristic taco bell of the year 20XX, justice wears an aluminum sombrero!"hemlock-martini
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[Acyl]

Thanks for the feedback, folks. I'm never entirely sure whether I'm getting too carried away.
Looks like that works. I'll be incognito-offline, for the next couple weeks or so. Possibly longer. But I'll likely have stuff written for posting when I come back, now my protagonist and setting are nailed down.
There's a fairly large range of "chunks of land" in space now, yeah. The ship registry writeups amuse me...and as I noted in my own one, I'm figuring earth governments are going NUTS revising property laws.
That said...
Glancing at the timeline, M.Fnord mentions a "Flying Island" launching in Summer '08 - is that s'posed to be my creation? Allowing for minor and understandable drift, getting my proposed name a widdle wrong. Or something else? If so, what?
On another note...
SPACE BROTHEL?!
Oh dear Lord.
I don't wanna know what kind of, er, employees they have. A...very wide range, I'm sure, what with biomods, cyborgs, 'wavium "uplifted" animals, 'wavium androids, and...grk.
...brain...hurts...
-- Acyl

[Sirrocco]

That's you.
Also, it occurs to me that a flying brothel would be particularly appropriate for the Whedonites, neh?
Also, I'd imagine a fair amount of the "trade" would be with visiting Danes. They'd likely want to have a regular shuttle out of Stellvia if Rob allowed them to.
Mind you, to keep it in genre, we'd want it to be a friendly, happy brothel, but that's easily enough done.

[Acyl]

*snort* A flying brothel would be very Firefly, yes.
I imagine someone would be willing to run a regular ferry service - if not a major group, certainly independent operators.
It's a concept that could go dark very quickly...but also has massive potential for spit-takes and amusement if done well. As has been noted.
-- Acyl

[Feinan]

*nods* The potential to go dark is certainly there...but fairly well minimized if run by a fan of Spider Robinson who really IS trying to create Lady Sally's. Or even a Heinleiner, in a pinch. Done well...it could be a lot of fun for everybody, and not just for the sex. And yes, I could easily see a Robinson fan setting up something like Lady Sally's. If there were two of me, I might try it myself (god, isn't that a scary notion? Run for your life, the Jason's cloning himself!). *snicker* Anyway, I hope somebody does take the idea and run with it now.

[Acyl]

Heck, there'd probably be shuttles from the Island heading in that direction.
Stellvia's probably the first stop for 'dane tourists heading into Fenspace - it's in Earth orbit, after all.
But the Island's probably the second, being midway to Mars...and it's got a definite "entertainment" vibe. Mall, hotel, cinemas, and suchlike. Makes sense for them to have a certain amount of...er, "co-sell" for other...establishments.
Probably no overt ads (think of the Fenkinder!)...but discreet pointers. And aforementioned shuttle service.
That said, Eric would be rather weirded out at a flying brothel, of all things. Because, jeez...the biomods, the cyborg limbs, the...ugh, no, just no. But...he's just the Island's boss, not a dictator. A couple of his management team, his senior crew...they'd probably be regulars at any Sallyesque establishment. Or at least strongly in favour of the idea.
Besides, so long as everyone's having fun, it can't be that bad. Right?
Right?
-- Acyl

[robkelk]

(Sirrocco)

---

Also, I'd imagine a fair amount of the "trade" would be with visiting Danes. They'd likely want to have a regular shuttle out of Stellvia if Rob allowed them to.

---

Actually, if Noah found out about any flights going from Stellvia to a space brothel, he'd shut them down pretty damn quickly... until he had a chance to determine whether the brothel was staffed by volunteer employees or draftees. Noah's like me that way - it's okay if everyone's willing and informed ahead of time, but desperation or coercion on even one participant's part makes it a no-go. And then there's the concerns about slavery.
But if it really is a "Lady Sally's", complete with minimum-age rules, health checks all around, profit-sharing amongst the employees, and no requirement to have sex even if you work in the place, then the shuttle flights would be allowed to resume.
In short: a brothel with happy employees is OK with Noah, one with "comfort girls" isn't. (I guess maybe Noah's leaning towards one of the Heinleiner factions, despite what it says in his character writeup...)
But there won't be a brothel on Stellvia. First, there's no room. ("Boss, we just opened a new structure..." "And it's already completely leased.") Second, the place has a reputation as a "safe" place for 'Dane families to visit to maintain.
(Acyl)

---

Stellvia's probably the first stop for 'dane tourists heading into Fenspace - it's in Earth orbit, after all.

---

I thought The Island was in LEO...? Stellvia's at L5, which counts as "in orbit" but is further out than most folks consider "Earth orbit" to be...

-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Sirrocco]

...or what about a fen who took inspiration from Foglio? He's certainly got the right vibe going, and there's even a direct example to draw from in the Velvet Fist (Buck Godot series).

[Acyl]

---

But there won't be a brothel on Stellvia. First, there's no room. ("Boss, we just opened a new structure..." "And it's already completely leased.&quot Second, the place has a reputation as a "safe" place for 'Dane families to visit to maintain.

---

Which is an interesting comparison. Eric would like the Island to be family-friendly in much the same way. But it's already a bit too late for that, since it's much more Fen in facilities, clientele, and outlook.
He still tries to keep the Island friendly for 'dane families and tourists, however. That's not entirely a business concern...he really believes in making his station a place for everyone. Not that he'd admit this; if questioned, he'd cite profit margin. Similar to Noel in some respects, rather less cuddly in others.
I doubt he'd let a brothel open on the Island, but he'd have...relatively fewer objections to shuttle services. Personal "ew, squick" reaction, but...

---

I thought The Island was in LEO...? Stellvia's at L5, which counts as "in orbit" but is further out than most folks consider "Earth orbit" to be...

---

I missed the L5 bit. Or rather it simply didn't click with my head.
No, the Island's further out. Between Earth and Mars.
I'm not sure precisely where between Earth and Mars. I need to squint at orbits and solar system charts a little better before settling on the exact location, though the Island has the 'wavium thrusters it used to get aloft in the first place, and can do a fair bit of station-keeping.
The idea is, though, it's between Earth (ie, source of most food, essentials, the 'daneworld)...and the stuff springing up on Mars and the Asteroid Belt.
This does mean, however, that the Island is in the wrong direction to catch traffic heading to Venus. This irks Eric. Still, he and the Island's AI, Simon-Peter, have been running numbers. Maybe a second station? How much does Rockhound charge these days...?
-- Acyl

[Sirrocco]

It's worth noting that for any two given planets, there will be some point in their year-cycle where passing between them on direct point-to-point straight line involves going through the Sun or pretty close to. This would tend to have strange effects on any real attempt to be a halfway point.
EDIT: also, would you like a Julian Friez? I could totally see him and Ally bonding, in spite of the fact that they have almost nothing in common, just over the trials of dealing with the Fen.
EDIT: also, a few more reality checks...
- the Octopus's strangeness means that currently, the Island *itself* has a max top speed of .07C - using the Octopus as an engine. That's... a little much.
- Kato's biomod seems to be "Make me a badass." He's got boosted physical stats, absolutely no change in appearance, and his only quirk is a minor neurosis about cats that may or may not have been there before he tasted the wave. This seems unbalanced, as biomods go. If you have no particular objection to slapstick, having him naturally give off an "attractive/appealing/interesting to catgirls/catboys" vibe would both make sense given his other effects and count distinctly as a downside from his point of view - especially since any attempts on his part to avoid them without confrontation would have a decent chance of setting off any applicable feline stalking instincts.
- Having the Shakespeare beat off a raider attack in 2009? That's three years before the SOS Con, and the Con is the point at which people start seriously getting concerned about raider attacks. A lot of people haven't heard more than vague rumors by the time of the Con. Having raiders attacking a large, established, important, occupied-at-all-times space station in 2009 throws that out of whack a little. For that matter, having one boat built as a defensive craft is rather on the paranoid side, pre-Con. There are certainly people who are that paranoid, and it wouldn't surprise me if you had them on your station. Once you've got that, though, why would you bother to put armaments on the Outrigger? (I mean, I guess if the 'bots like the idea of experimenting with weapons or somehting, but....) Once you've got *that*, why would you bother to arm the Delphinus? It's not like naval guns are all that easy to come by, let alone cheap. Most ships flying around Fenspace as of SOS-Con have no weaponry at all, and no real thought that they'd need any.

[Kokuten]

hrm, sounds like all of scirocco's problems would be solved by just bumping the time frame forward a bit.
Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[His Lovely Wife]

If the concept is not taken, I'll work on a space brothel idea. Let me read the exisiting work and I'll get back to everyone with the details.
-Cindy

[robkelk]

(Sirrocco)

---

Having the Shakespeare beat off a raider attack in 2009? That's three years before the SOS Con, and the Con is the point at which people start seriously getting concerned about raider attacks.

---

On the flip side, we've already established that the raiders are known, at least as a boogeyman, and the defences on the Island weren't as good then as they are now... I could see an isolated attack on the Island, three years prior to SOS-con. I can't picture more than one such attack, though.
(His Lovely Wife)

---

If the concept is not taken, I'll work on a space brothel idea. Let me read the exisiting work and I'll get back to everyone with the details.

---

I do believe the idea's now yours. As for source material, what you might want for the setting "feel" is Spider Robinson's Callahan's Lady and Lady Slings the Booze, mixed with parts of Phil Foligo's Buck Godot: Zap Gun for Hire if you can find a copy. I'm sure there are other appropriate references, but these are the three that come to mind immediately...
(Edit for spelling in a book title)

-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Acyl]

A tragically belated reply, but I've been Internet-less for over a week. o_o;

---

It's worth noting that for any two given planets, there will be some point in their year-cycle where passing between them on direct point-to-point straight line involves going through the Sun or pretty close to. This would tend to have strange effects on any real attempt to be a halfway point.

---

I'm tempted to argue Space Opera logic here, but that'd cover the fact I simply hadn't considered that. There's reasons why I eventually dropped most of my science subjects in school...
Maybe there's some sorta, I dunno, schedule saying where the Island's supposed to be at any given time. In light of planetary orbits round the sun and all that, well, I figure that kinda thing wouldn't be unusual in Fenspace. Especially for stations and spacedocks that are regular destinations. Or is that overly fiddly?

---

EDIT: also, would you like a Julian Friez?

---

*loooong thoughtful pause* Hmmmmmm. Let me get back to you on that one... once I go back, reread, and try to fully grok what the Friez(s) is...are...?

---

the Octopus's strangeness means that currently, the Island *itself* has a max top speed of .07C - using the Octopus as an engine. That's... a little much.

---

Possibly. The Octopus is, in fact, built around the weirdly 'waved antigrav device they used to boost the Island out of atmosphere...and to where it currently is...in the first place. They made a tug out of it, because the station itself didn't have much use for that engine afterwards. So yeah, it can push the Island itself; that doesn't happen, but it was the original use for the Octopus' engine.
The .07C figure for the Octopus' current configuration may need to be reduced, however. Good point. That number's...pretty fast. Too fast. Let me think on that. What would make sense for a, well, space tow truck?

---

- Kato's biomod seems to be "Make me a badass." He's got boosted physical stats, absolutely no change in appearance, and his only quirk is a minor neurosis about cats that may or may not have been there before he tasted the wave. This seems unbalanced, as biomods go.

---

There's a downside quirk. A fairly serious one. Though it isn't mentioned there due to...well, minor plot point. Admittedly, given my rate of writing, I'll probably only reach that scene sometime in 2020.
Suffice to say, he's got physical boosts, but a net negative effect on his long-term health. Again, it's something I plan to touch on for a story, hence why the entry played cards a little close-to-chest.
Will Kao is a nod, homage, reference, or rough caricature of a friend. Who really does have a truly disturbing fascination with feline imagery - and an equally strong revulsion of furries. Honestly, I can't make this stuff up...
In light of that, catgirl/catboy attraction is a good idea - might use that anyway. I'm fond of slapstick, though I'm not sure how well I can write it. These days, anyway. Been a while since I tried. It doesn't quite fit the tone of the current short story I'm working on with the Island crew. But I might use that for future stuff...

---

- Having the Shakespeare beat off a raider attack in 2009? That's three years before the SOS Con, and the Con is the point at which people start seriously getting concerned about raider attacks...

---

It wasn't so much a raider attack, as it was a would-be raider attack; effectively a single nutjob with a gun trying to rob a bank on London's high street. You're not going to get very far.

---

Once you've got *that*, why would you bother to arm the Delphinus? It's not like naval guns are all that easy to come by, let alone cheap.

---

Said nutjob is where they got the gun. It might be rather more clear if I ever manage to get round to writing the relevant story.
As for having an armed ship - providing some assurance of security, even if that assurance is false. 's part of business. Place I worked for had, f'example, fake security cameras. There really was a closed-circuit TV system, but most of the cameras around the area weren't actually real. Likewise, the Shakespeare wasn't...that well-armed when it started out.
Part of the point is...the ship is evolutionary. It was launched for protection and patrol purposes, or generally playing shepherd to the various ships flocking round Island airspace. Initially, though, it was just pretty much a glorified airtight box with big engines and guns. Gradual modifications over the years, though...well. Again, story purposes.
That, and there are gunbunnies on staff. Thomas Zhu is vaguely based on a real cousin of mine. The actual guy's an engineering student who taught me how to make homemade sorta-napalm when we were kids. Yeah. Boom. He was terribly disappointed when he was forced to go non-combat in the military. Flat feet. He wanted Air Force or Commandos or something...
There's no real excuse for armaments on the Outrigger II, but that ship isn't always armed either; the entire craft is in a constant state of flux... even if it is armed, the weaponry isn't terribly significant. 's never really a big craft.
-- Acyl

[M Fnord]

---

Maybe there's some sorta, I dunno, schedule saying where the Island's supposed to be at any given time. In light of planetary orbits round the sun and all that, well, I figure that kinda thing wouldn't be unusual in Fenspace. Especially for stations and spacedocks that are regular destinations. Or is that overly fiddly?

---

Knowing the Island's orbital elements and position for a given date it should in theory be possible to calculate exactly where it is at any time. As long as it stays in that orbit, it's findable - sane reason the Hidden Asteroid isn't really all that hidden.
Hrm. Lemmie get back to you on that one.---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Herr Bad Moon]

---

Maybe there's some sorta, I dunno, schedule saying where the Island's supposed to be at any given time. In light of planetary orbits round the sun and all that, well, I figure that kinda thing wouldn't be unusual in Fenspace. Especially for stations and spacedocks that are regular destinations. Or is that overly fiddly

---

Fnord's right. I didn't go past Astronomy 102 in college, but as long as the orbit is stable and a person's willing to do the math, you should always be able to find where the Island is at any given time if you know where it's been. ---------------
-Jon
Being the Mariner hitting coach is like being the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher at Hogwarts.
-Poster on USSMariner.com
---
Jon
"And that must have caused my dad's brain to break in half, replaced by a purely mechanical engine of revenge!"

[Sirrocco]

Oh, he's got a speed drive attached to the thing. It's not *fast*, as such things go, but it's more than enough to adjust for orbits. The point is that if his goal is to play "rest stop" between major polities, he's going to have to do some complicated math to figure out which places he's going to be a rest stop in between at any given time. (...assuming he wants to go that deep in the weeds.)
Trying to keep the speed drive secret will, of course, make this that much harder.
Actually, you could do worse than playing sunkeeper. Start at the sun, and head far enough up or down out of the orbit plane to be safe and comfortable. It makes you at least a reasonable detour for anyone travelling from one side of the sun to the other, and keeps you just about the right distance from earth (hour and twenty, or so) to work the "this is where you find out if you're ready for Fenspace" angle. Makes it a natural point for tour departures, too, and you could set up specially designed "view the incandescent glory of the Sun but don't die" rooms, if you wanted to.

[M Fnord]

On the assumption that keeping the Island on one orbital track is, in fact, the best way to stay in business (if one expects customers, then one should be able to be found by said customers, after all) a basic Hohmann cycle orbit between Earth and Mars would be the easiest way of doing that.
(There's the small problem that there's no Hohmann window between Earth and Mars during 2008, but we can gloss that over with Handwavium Solves All Problems if need be. If not... we'll burn that bridge when we get there.)
Or, as another possibility, the Island could run as a Venus-Mars Hohmann orbit. This would cover most of the major points in the inner solar system - Earth would be a little haphazzard, since the orbit isn't aimed directly at it - and it would serve as a link between the two terraforming projects.---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"