The Laws of the Handwave

[Feinan]

---

But if you can think of a way around this, then it's a fair cop. You've beaten the system and Handwavium is not going to change the rules on you. Because beating the system is cool and interesting enough to overrule the previous guideline. Of course, that doesn't mean that your trick will work for someone else (hence, coilguns are a Katz speciality, he has (or is) the 'patent' and no one else can duplicate it).

---

I like this, too. It encourages variety, and it means everybody will tend to have their own schtick if they do decide to try for weapons. Katz has his coilguns, I've got drone missiles (in all sorts of sizes)...it means most people who aren't using hardtech for weaponry will have unique takes on what makes a weapon. It will keep things from being boring, at least.

[drakensis]

---

Instead of saying that the handwavium does not build anything....could we say it doesn't build anything from scratch? It might just be pickiness on my part, but I think if it's turning an engine into a space drive, it's DEFINITELY building SOMEthing. And I think people are pushing too much for only minor reshaping in trying to avoid the whole 'can't show a picture to get your spaceship' bit. Yes, you need a good template to start with...but once you have the template, my preference is for a bit more leeway in the alteration department.

---

That's fine by me - what does everyone else think?
D for Drakensis

You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.

[Feinan]

Hey, drakensis. Looks like something weird happened when you posted. You got cut off by a quote.

[CattyNebulart]

I think rule 1 should be handwavium alters, it does not build.
if you have a vehicle it will remain a vehicle but it might alter shape slightly.
I am a little busy at the moment preparing for finnals but hopefully I should start contributing regularly again in a week or so.

---

d) You cannot blow up handwavium for Great Justice. Handwavium cannot be caused to explode, and adding handwavium to an explosive thing won't do anything except reduce intensity. Handwavium is not fond of things going boom. In fact, if you handwave something with the intent of making it a weapon, you will fail. Nothing that you build will turn out to be a weapon randomly. The only way to get a handwaved weapon is to take an existing handwavium device designed for peaceful purposes and use it in ways nature never intended.

---

What good is mad science if it doesn't explode? Mind you, not as weapons but as in failed experiment. I think this ties in with the handwavium being like cat, making weapons is like giving a cat a bath. It will fight you every step of the way.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

[robkelk]

---

Instead of saying that the handwavium does not build anything....could we say it doesn't build anything from scratch? It might just be pickiness on my part, but I think if it's turning an engine into a space drive, it's DEFINITELY building SOMEthing. And I think people are pushing too much for only minor reshaping in trying to avoid the whole 'can't show a picture to get your spaceship' bit. Yes, you need a good template to start with...but once you have the template, my preference is for a bit more leeway in the alteration department.

---

This looks like a re-wording for clarity of what I was trying to suggest, and (as you mentioned) it allows for already-established cases of IC engines becoming spacedrives... Sounds good to me.

-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[drakensis]

1b) The handwavium does not, in fact, do anything on it's own. It must be combined with a template device that has a purpose in order to accomplish anything, and what ever that device is reshaped into will retain the same basic purpose - a car's engine might become a space drive, it's air conditioner might become an air recycler and it's chassis a spaceframe, but none of these have changed in their basic purpose. Interpretation of purpose is a tricky thing however.
D for Drakensis

You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.

[Feinan]

Hmm. I like this a lot better, I'll admit. Though...perhaps add that the device/template might not actually work for its purpose as is? Hrm. Not quite sure how to phrase this. Well, let me use the photovoltaic ivy as an example, just because it springs immediately to mind. Now, any way you look at it, combining a solar cell and an ivy cutting together isn't going to yield a plant that already incorporates the cell to grow more of it, at least not with our tech. But to make a template...cutting pieces of the solar cell and using an organic-based glue to attach them to the ivy leaves to make a crude version of what you're attempting....that might give the handwavium enough of an implied purpose for it to work. The stuff might look at you oddly and go 'Um....yeah, right. Okaaaay....we'll try it.' But at least it's a template (Yes, I know I anthropomorphize the handwavium. I can't help it. It's got this really sarcastic voice in my head.).
Hmm. I think maybe it could be summed up that a template doesn't necessarily have to function properly, as long as the idea behind it is clear in the user's mind? You put together this conglomeration of parts because in your head, you can see this working as a grav-drive, or a holographic projector, or whatever....as long as it gets a bit of help.
For a non-functional template, I'd think that the closer you can make it to something that might work, the better chance you have of getting what you want. Handwavium rewards effort/creativity? Or else it just reacts better to overkill? Just dumping parts into a box and applying handwavium won't give you a working device...though you might get shiny parts or a very sturdy box from it. Attaching motors and sensor leads and connecting things to a control mechanism...with the parts having a clear purpose in your mind, even if there's no way in the world that they could work as a whole for the purpose you want....has a much better chance of yielding something interesting. I'm currently working on a story snippet that details the construction of some presents for my AIs, that hopefully serves as a good example of this. Now that it's the weekend, I hope to have it up in the Leaves in a day or two. So - work for you guys? Like it, hate it?

Edit - the story snippet for the presents should now be up in the Leaves, if you're interested.

[classicdrogn]

Well, the guiding principle I followed was pretty much that function follows form, the closer to a functional form the more likely it is to work, since that means the 'wave is putting its effect into making it work BETTER or at most differently, rather than making it work AT ALL. The wacky comes in to it after that to make things unpredictable, but if you've got a metal box with slots about the size of a finger cut in the top and thin wires strung across the inside connected to a couple of rheostats and a power supply, you're more likely to get a taoster than a holographic projector.
... and yes, that was a typo, but I think I'll leave it. It is the 'wave, after all - making each slice a perfectly balanced shade between light and dark every time needs to have a quirk, and having to chant "om" until the toast is finished seems suitable to me.
- CDSERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
For the next 72 hours, Itachi intoned, I will slap you with this trout. - Spying no Jutsu, chapter 3
"In the futuristic taco bell of the year 20XX, justice wears an aluminum sombrero!"hemlock-martini
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[Sirrocco]

Okay. I guess my moratorium is pretty much over by now. Indeed, seeing the results that people are mostly agreeing on, I'm glad I *wasn't* muckign with it. Actually, after reading the comments and reasoning posted, even *I* have to agree that "some reshaping of contours and such" is a better answer than "no changes in shape."
For the record, I would point this out as a perfect example of why it is a Good Thing to have the Communist in charge, and the Fascist working *for* you, rather than the other way around. Assuming no one else want to take up the job of bringing the newbies in line (Anyone? Anyone at all? I don't mind. Really, I don't.) I will strive in the future to be a kinder, gentler fascist-on-a-leash. I do have two bits to add, though.
First, biomod weapons. Personally, I figure if there aren't any deliberately weaponform gadgets, then there shouldn't be any deliberately weaponform biomods (and "no weapons" was part of the biomod plan initially) but I figure that if we *are* going to prevent them, it should be explicitly in the rules. Also, *having* (limited) biomod weapons isn't going to break the universe like having direct purpose-built ship-to-ship (or ship-to-surface) handwaved weapons would, so I'm not all that *attached* to the idea that we shouldn't have them. What do people think would make the better stories?
Second, Shape And Eventual Effects. I guess I figure the handwavium as being Tremendously Complex, and having a lot of analytical processing power, and some degree of ability to pick up random thoughts/sounds/whatever, but not actually "thinking", per se. It'll take the shape of the thing you give it (obviously, actual devices will have more shape to work with than mock-ups) and any random bits of imagery it picks up from nearby, and perhaps some stuff it's picked up along the way, and some bits of its own nature, and pour the lot into an incomprehensibly complex and mutable internal function, and come out the end with an Idea, which it will then try to implement. Having an actual device *here* will help as well, as it frequently will mean that the handwavium doesn't have to do as much, and is less likely to lapse into randomness or whatever it does. In the end, some internal regulator declares victory, sends the "anchor in, guys" pulse, and you have a working Thing. One of the notable factors which is common to every strain seen so far is that any thought of Thing-As-Specific-Weapon tends to plug into the function as "whatever you do, don't do *this*". On the other side, there is a tendency for the internal function to respond very strongly to thoughtforms of the type "Necessity of life", and the internal datastructures often have a lot of halfbuilt functions that can make it easy to do the simple straightforward stuff - speed drives, life support, hull sealing, and so forth. Finally some of the strains (some, mind you) will plagiarize off of themselves under certain circumstances. If you manage to make a plagiarizable thing once, then the next time you give it a similar roadmap to work off of (similar structure, same breed of handwavium, same creator, similar thoughtforms) you get somethign that's pretty much the same. This is what makes it possible to build the second coilgun. Notice that it does mean that the fact that "coilgun" fell under his "plagiarizables" was purest luck - so we don't see the boskonians all armed with the same three things. Notice that the same guy has to build it every time (and go to a bit of effort to duplicate the thing as precisely as possible). So... if you want a one-off improvised weapon? Perfect justification. If you want an improvised weapon that can be deployed on a handful of ships? Also a perfect justification. It also gives nonreaver characters with a duplicatable weapon effect an excellent reason to not let too many people know. The reavers would *want* people like that, and would go to some fairly severe lengths to get them, if they realized (or even just thought) who one was.
Reactions?

[CattyNebulart]

Overall agreement, I'd relax the no weapon bit on biomods to allow claws and similar things. (I have a hard time seeing claws as anything but a weapon but it seems valid to allow them. Of course this is not a carte blanche to allow any kind of weapon.)
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

[classicdrogn]

I note that no one complained when I mention Shuko the catgirl having to use her claws on pushy jerks once in a while - I also note that the nmae means "climbing claws" and the concept of the nekomimi body I gave her comes directly from how to put claws as versatile, articulated, and strong as a cat's on a human when human fingers arre so delicate, specifically so that they can support the owner's weight even hanging inverted with finger and toe claws dug into a suitably sturdy base.
Wolvers, now, I can see your point - not much utility except weapons there. Toughened nails on toughened fingers, or second-knuckle claws like I came up with, even claws that extend from the palm side between the knuckles, all have validity as climbing aids. Given the general popularity of catgirls on one end of the possum and the fact that zero-gee evironments where you DO NOT want to lose your grip and go floating away on the other, I think there's plenty of leeway in the flat, squishy bit between.
- CDSERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
For the next 72 hours, Itachi intoned, I will slap you with this trout. - Spying no Jutsu, chapter 3
"In the futuristic taco bell of the year 20XX, justice wears an aluminum sombrero!"hemlock-martini
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[robkelk]

Just because nobody's done it lately, here's what I see the rules looking like right now. Editing Drakensis' post with what I've seen us agree on since then:

Rule #0: This is a collaborative writing project, which means there's a whole bunch of people adding their ideas to the pot.
a) Offering constructive criticism (why don't you do this?) is good. Saying 'you can't do that' is not constructive.
b) Handwavium is fuelled by imagination*. So are stories.
c) When Rule #0 conflicts with any other rule, Rule #0 trumps the other rule. As Mustrum Ridcully would put it, they're "more of a guideline".
* well, it could be!
Rule #1: Handwavium is like Cat. It does not go where you tell it to go. It goes where it wants to go. If you are trying to get A Cool Thing, then you will get A Cool Thing. If you are trying to get A Specific Cool Thing, You will get A Cool Thing which may or may not be what you want but might be what you really need. With that said, there are some general limits to its effects:
a) You may not show the Handwavium a picture of your desired genre vehicle and have it build one for you.
b) The Handwavium does not, in fact, do anything on its own. It must be combined with a template device that has a purpose in order to accomplish anything, and whatever that device is reshaped into will retain the same basic purpose - a car's engine might become a space drive, its air conditioner might become an air recycler, and its chassis a spaceframe, but none of these have changed in their basic purpose. Interpretation of purpose is a tricky thing, however.
c) The Handwavium will probably have quirks. The more Cool Stuff you have, and the Cooler the Stuff is, the more quirky it will be. Some Handwavium is less quirky than other Handwavium but it's almost maliciously unpredictable.
d) You cannot blow up Handwavium for Great Justice. Handwavium cannot be caused to explode, and adding Handwavium to an explosive thing won't do anything except reduce intensity. Handwavium is not fond of things going boom.
e) If Handwavium is like Cat, making weapons is like giving Cat a bath. If you Handwave something with the intent of making it a weapon, you will fail. Nothing that you build will turn out to be a weapon randomly. The only way to get a Handwaved weapon is to take an existing Handwavium device designed for peaceful purposes and use it in ways nature never intended. But if you can think of a way around this, then it's a fair cop. You've beaten the system and Handwavium is not going to change the rules on you, because beating the system is cool and interesting enough to overrule the previous guideline. Of course, that doesn't mean that your trick will work for someone else.
Rule #2: You can get one Biomod, you get only one, and after you get it, you can't get rid of it, barring major reconstructive surgery - and sometimes not even then.
a) Biomods are physical alterations and like other Handwavium changes, don't change appearance much unless a prothesis was used. They are not superpowers (not that there aren't folks trying, mind) but tend to make what you have work better (fingernails becoming climbing claws, for example), but sometimes quirkily.
b) Particularly strong Handwavium fumes over a period of time may be enough to biomod someone, but that's about it, and that only because the lungs are so efficient at absorbing the stuff.
Rule #3: If you have some Handwavium, you can turn it into more Handwavium, but you have to feed it something. The fastest it grows should be about doubling in size every day, but if you want more in a hurry then many Fen will share. What you feed your Handwavium may have effects on it's appearance and upon quirks resulting from use. See 1c, above.
Rule #4: Space combat is more like Napoleanic warfare than modern warfare - you might shoot things at each other but the decisive role usually involves getting up close and personal. This is because:
a) Handwavium hulls are relatively resistant to hard tech weapons. Just about any Handwavium hull will be bulletproof and it's not difficult to make them proof against anti-tank weapons (although not everyone bothers to).
b) See 1d, above.
c) Forcetubes between spacecraft are easy to make (since they're the main means of getting in and out of space stations that lack internal docking) and are easily adapted for boarding actions.
d) Bigger ships tend to be slower than smaller craft, but smaller craft, which control the engagement ranges, have less ability to inflict hurt. But they can 'land' boarders relatively easily.

Did I miss anything that we discussed? Is there anything we haven't discussed that should be there? Most importantly, are these the rules we want?

-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

Let me note than once the final rules are ratified, Fnord or I can put them in a locked, pinned note at the top of the forum with the other references, where they will always be visible for consultation.
And also let me note that the Grover's Corners is going to be down on its metaphorical knees praying in thanks to Rule 0. Lots.
-- Bob
---------
...The President is on the line
As ninety-nine crab rangoons go by...

[Foxboy]

If your 'wavium items/abilities seem to differ strongly form what has gone before and might seem to be against the rules...
Try to come up with a "close enough for Star Trek" explanation for what your thing can do. That is, if you can describe your thing technically enough to "feel right," it should be accepted with little fuss.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[drakensis]

Possibly we should have some explanation of the Limit and general speeds.
Rule #5: Handwavium and engines tend to produce speed-drives, which allow vehicles to fly in atmosphere and in space. In general Space Craft operate between 0.05c and 0.1c outside the atmosphere and inside the Limit; under the same conditions, Space Ships operate between 0.025c and 0.05c while Space Vessels have trouble moving faster than 0.025c.
a) Faster-than-Light travel is rare and thus far requires that you first move outside the Limit, a notional boundary approximately 8 light hours away from the sun.
b) Travel within a few hundred miles of a planet is slower with a wide variation in how much slower. Movement between surface and orbit in either direction usually takes hours using Speed Drives but some vehicles are better at this.
Thoughts? Particularly on a)?
D for Drakensis

You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.

[Feinan]

---

Rule #5: Handwavium and engines tend to produce speed-drives, which allow vehicles to fly in atmosphere and in space. In general Space Craft operate between 0.05c and 0.1c outside the atmosphere and inside the Limit; under the same conditions, Space Ships operate between 0.025c and 0.05c while Space Vessels have trouble moving faster than 0.025c.

---

Um....one thought. I haven't said anything before now since everybody seemed to be using it as accepted, but...well, we said the top speed was 1% of lightspeed for the fastest vehicles, yes? Isn't that 0.01c, and not 0.1c?

[Sirrocco]

Actually, I *think* (check me if I'm wrong on this) that the first sentence off of 2a is pretty much a goner. The first biomods described included the Lounge Lizard and My Evil Twin. We have a lady who walks around in baggy clothes to hide her tentacles, and a guy who came down with a slow-mo version of Jusenkyo. Biomods change appearance a *whole* *lot*.
Also, Rule 2 could use an addition about weaponry. Personally, I'd say something like "there are aspects of some biomods that can be used as natural weapons, but in all cases they are either a largely incidental effect of a more significant biomod (A biomod that reshaped you into a wolfman also giving you wolf-like teeth) or more utilitarian than martial in nature (Short stubby claws are sometimes useful in a fight. They are often useful for climbing, gripping tightly, and operating soda can pop-tops.) Most often, they are both.
Also, *did* we decide to put "boarding tubes" on the "easily duplicated tech" list? I'm not arguing, I just didn't myself see it.
(Side note for Bob: Grover's Corners are actually not but so much of a stretch. You have one necessary Really Cool Thing (we managed to get the thing to move! Not fast, but it moves!) and one incidental Really Cool Thing (we have an atmosphere-capable forcefield that's *really* *big*.) There will probably be folks who get the heebie-jeebies out of having nothing between them and the sucking void except a funny glow, but it's not universe-breaking, it's not implausible, and it doesn't interfere with anyone else's ability to be cool. You're fine. If you wanted to ditch (or augment) the forcefield, it would also be reasonable to get a handwaved plant that would do the job as a standard-level Cool Thing.)
Actually, for that matter, those might be good to add to the rules, even if they *are* kinda fuzzy.
- Don't break the universe.
- Also, don't break the current storyline. Wait until it finishes before you kick in a priority interrupt.
- nothing entirely implausible
- don't consume too much Cool at once. If you are Just Plain Better than someone else *in their area of specialty*, then you'll need to have some significant drawback to balance that out. If they are famous and/or fanatical in their area of specialty, don't even try. Your ship will not be more durable than the Stone Temple. It will not be larger than Grover's Corners. Your character will not be better at handwaved science than the professor, and cannot beat The Green Machine in humanscale hand-to-hand combat.
- Talk with people before you do things that No One Else Can Do, particularly if you are intending to do more than one.

something like that.
Thoughts?

[Feinan]

*grin* Looks pretty good to me, Sirrocco.

---

Actually, I *think* (check me if I'm wrong on this) that the first sentence off of 2a is pretty much a goner. The first biomods described included the Lounge Lizard and My Evil Twin. We have a lady who walks around in baggy clothes to hide her tentacles, and a guy who came down with a slow-mo version of Jusenkyo. Biomods change appearance a *whole* *lot*.

---

Yes, definitely a whole lot (says the man with a monkey tail who lost over a foot of height). You start out with a body, you end up with a body (or maybe two, considering the Evil Twin). If you have a lot of extra mass (as a lot of fen do), you have just that much more for the handwavium to play with. It might not use all of it, but it does give it more leeway in what it can do. There might be some fairly bizarre changes, to accomplish a particular mod - I'm currently brainstorming one such, and it's been driving me crazy. I THINK I've got a way to solve it that doesn't actually break any natural laws besides effects we've already seen, but I need to run it past someone to see what they think of it. You might see more on this later.
Also, yes to one biomod...but there might be associated effects. My Golden Apples will pretty much always grant health - I was concentrating fairly intently on that when I was making the tree, given how sick I was, and a lot of the golden fruit in mythology is associated with that sort of effect - health, immortality, and so on. So, when you get your random biomod - monkey boy, catgirl, whatever....you're a healthy one. Of course, this might also incline the fruit to the more...extreme biomods, too. After all, if you're going through and doing a general overhaul anyway, you might as well do other stuff as well, right? Part of the price for getting good health - taking your chances at the more extreme mod. Of course, for some of us it's more than worth the risk. Give me one of those apples today, in real life, and guarantee it'd have the same effects...I'd take the biomod in a second and deal. I'm tired of being sick and feeling old in RL; gods know my character was, several years further along.

[Bob Schroeck]

Sirrocco said:

---

and one incidental Really Cool Thing (we have an atmosphere-capable forcefield that's *really* *big*.)

---

Um, no, I never had a forcefield on the GC. It's always been a geodesic dome that was built "folded up" out of local materials (silicon/quartz in the soil of West Virginia) and then "unfolded" and sealed right before launch. At least, that was the original concept. I'm not sure where folks got the idea that it was a forcefield, except maybe from the original fictional implementation of the spindizzy.
Now, if folks think a force field works better within the rules of the settting than the dome, I'll make the change, but I don't want people evaluating the concept as it stands with incorrect information.
-- Bob
---------
...The President is on the line
As ninety-nine crab rangoons go by...

[drakensis]

---

Um....one thought. I haven't said anything before now since everybody seemed to be using it as accepted, but...well, we said the top speed was 1% of lightspeed for the fastest vehicles, yes? Isn't that 0.01c, and not 0.1c?

---

I'm going from a discussion Catty and I had way back around page 3 to 5 of the original thread where we settled on 10% light speed as top.
I did erroneously quote 1% as top in Timote's 'my stuff' thread, which may be what's confused you. This has now been editted.
D for Drakensis

You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.

[Sirrocco]

Bob: Nonononono. Actually, personally, I'm pretty relieved that you're *not* going with a forcefield. My mistake there. As I'd said, the right sort of biomodded plant could do that pretty quickly and easily. You could likely come up with a not-quite-plant that could do it as well, if you didn't want the dome to be green. It actually makes the whole structure *more* plausible, rather than less.
(now, if you'd wanted to try to build the dome with hardtech and sweat, that's... bizarre, and also a tch worrisome.)

[robkelk]

---

Now, if folks think a force field works better within the rules of the settting than the dome, I'll make the change ...

---

Oh, heck no - go with the geodesic dome. That Just Looks Cooler than a forcefield, in my humble opinion.
(And you might want to stick three maintenance robots inside the dome while you're at it, for the "Silent Running writ large" effect... )

-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[robkelk]

---

Actually, I *think* (check me if I'm wrong on this) that the first sentence off of 2a is pretty much a goner.

---

Considering that we've got a Sayian out there, I think you're correct...
So, how do we re-word this? (I doubt it'd be a good idea to just drop Rule #2.)
Hmmmmm... Does the biomod change species? If "yes", by how much? (Two examples:
(a) Can a biomodded person and a non-biomodded person procreate with each other?
(b) Are a catgirl who was originally a cat and a catboy who was originally a human able to procreate with each other?)
The answer to this will help us re-word Rule #2.

---

Also, *did* we decide to put "boarding tubes" on the "easily duplicated tech" list?

---

If we didn't, the whole first season goes out the window because we can't have plausible space battles against those Boskonians that Haruhi's so worried about... I think what's already been written pretty much forces us to have them as "easily duplicated".

---

Also, Rule 2 could use an addition about weaponry.

---

We've already got Rule #1e - do we need to hit people over the head with this?

---

- Don't break the universe.
- Also, don't break the current storyline. Wait until it finishes before you kick in a priority interrupt.
- nothing entirely implausible

---

These are pretty much axiomatic for any shared-world, aren't they?

---

- don't consume too much Cool at once.

---

Yes, definitely. Maybe make the current Rule #0c "Rule #0d" and add a new Rule 0c:
c) Since this is a collaborative writing project, no one writer can hog all the Good Stuff without upsetting the other writers. Don't step on anyone else's toes - don't consume too much Cool at once, don't try to be better than the already-established "best in Fenspace" at something, and talk with people before you do things that No One Else Can Do.
Is that enough, too much, or incomplete?

---

Your ship will not be more durable than the Stone Temple. It will not be larger than Grover's Corners. Your character will not be better at handwaved science than The Professor, and cannot beat The Green Machine in humanscale hand-to-hand combat.

---

Or a better "fixer" than Mr. Morden... or as disliked as Noah Scott, for that matter.
Speaking of such things, do we want to compile a list of the characters' "bests" somewhere? It would help writers (old hands and newcomers both) avoid stepping on other people's toes, and might inspire a few character crossovers...

-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Sirrocco]

axiomatic, yes - which means that people generally won't break them if they think about them. I'm thinking they're worth putting in the Rules list to give people a chance to think about them. There may well be people who decide to get involved in this without prior shared world experience. I guess my reasoning is somewhat similar for putting the explicit weapon exclusion in the biomod section. Some people will find it intuitive, but some won't. Putting it in costs nothing (at least, nothing that *I* can see) and helps people do it right from the start. This is especially the case since one of our pretty clearly stated reasons for "no easy handwavium superweapons" is "encourage boarding actions", which weaponized biomods don't interfere with at all.
the rule 0c you've got there looks about like what I was saying, yes - except to also put in somehow that even if they're not "the best in Fenspace" people should have some respect in their area of specialty. If some charracter is noted as being "really quite fast for a ship that size", and has taken on a few disadvantages and put in a fair amount of good writing to justify *being* that fast, then even if they aren't billing themselves as the best there is, people shouldn't just step in and declare themselves faster without having to work for it.
Personally, I'd figure that biomods change species on a sliding scale. There would be cases of "W can procreate with X, X can procreate with Y, Y can procreate with Z, W cannot procreate with Z." Baseline humans can procreate with almost everything that has enough strongly human characteristics (including initially-cat catgirls). Biomods heading in different directions, though, may not be able to procreate with one another - and some biomods preclude natural procreation altogether. For justification - well, the Handwavium *tries* to make it work. Usually it'll succeed, but sometimes it is too far to reach.

Another question: do biomodded parents have biomodded kids? We're probably *just* far enough into the storyline for people to start having experimental evidence on that one.

[Feinan]

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Another question: do biomodded parents have biomodded kids? We're probably *just* far enough into the storyline for people to start having experimental evidence on that one.

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It honestly depends on what the handwavium did, I think. If it just altered an individual on the phenotypic level (what you see), but not the genotypic level (the DNA/genes), then you have no problems with reproduction with baseline humans at all, and I'd say no to biomodded kids (They get to take their own chances). If it does alter the DNA, then traits can get passed on...and you can get offspring with biomods. Though...unless handwavium is passed on sexually, I'm not sure that those traits would count as a biomod FOR the child? So they'd still get their own shot at it? *sigh* It's so much easier with plants. Biomod them, and save samples. If the seeds work to make the next generation, great! If not, you can still reproduce them with cloning the samples. Takes a bit of work, but doable now. I'm trying to compile data on this - asking farmers/people who use my plants to pass data back to me if they save seed to do the next generation, so I can keep track of the long-term effects on heredity (and so I can ask for samples for my cell banks if they get any really neat mutants).
My personal preference is for a blend; it would depend on each individual mod. Some of them are at the DNA level, some aren't. So you can see a huge range of effects - from two biomodded parents having a normal child, having a child showing the traits of one or the other, or possibly traits from both. *grin* And that's not counting whether or not any of the traits are recessive. The human genepool would never be the same. Personally I think that's a fun thing, but that's just me. I DO think that the kids should get their own chance at a true biomod, though, even if they get traits passed down to them.