[Discussion] Laying out Luna

[Cobalt Greywalker]

OK, I recently had a bit of inspiration and tried to start on a write-up for The Moon/Luna. Said inspiration died when I realised I didn't know where
Kandor City was located on the surface and it took me half an hour of digging the boards before I hit Wikipedia to find out where the JLA Watchtower was
placed.

According to the scan from a JLA encyclopedia, the Watchtower was based on the Sea of Serenity, so I tried to find the best place where it didn't upset the
Senshi. Of course, this is when I found out about Shacklton Crater where NASA hopes to put the first Luna base because of the high possibility of ice being
there.

So, do we go with where I eventually placed the Watchtower/Kandor City (Crater Posidonius, on the Northern edge), or do we move the whole thing to a usable
resource and go for Shacklton Crater?

[Bob Schroeck]

I think the proper answer to this question would also be the answer to another question: "Which would be cooler/more dramatic?" Remeber, these are Fen building it, after all, and Handwavium can be used to smooth over almost all objections...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Foxboy]

Agreed. Presume that the "city planners" weren't quite as reasonable as they could have been choosing a location for that first tower. That is,
crater hills that have to be built around for the folks who sprang up like mushrooms around the watchtower. The Atlas Park neighborhood (Where Vulpine
Fury's Shop is located) is in a relatively flat area, leading towards a street on a steep hill towards the "center" of Kandor. This is not as
much of a problem on Luna as it would be in, say, San Francisco... I'd figure... grav fields are only in effect "indoors?" That is, for health
reasons, most residences have a grav field with a strength between native Mars gravity or Earth's. The streets however, have close to normal Lunar gravity,
giving visitors a taste of "able to leap tall buildings in a single bound."

Thought: is Kandor a "greenhoused crater" set up or "ha-ha! Ginormous DOME!" layout?

That is, is most of the city nestled in the bowl of the crater with "plastic wrap" over the top, or is it like a piece of Random American City under
an inverted tupperware container?
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[Bob Schroeck]

Oh, dome city would be so much cooler. I can't see fen settling for living under what amounts to a sheet of Saran Wrap when they can go classic dome.

Not to mention a dome would echo the source material so much more accurately. In fact, I've envisioned Kandor City from the start as looking like it was in a giant glass bottle... although I haven't given too much thought to the cork, to be honest.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[M Fnord]

When I was kicking around Kandor ideas, I eventually came up with a medium-largish shallow crater (say 7-10km across) as the centerpoint, with the Watchtower at the dead center and a dome about twice the height of the Watchtower covering the interior of the crater (figure ~2km or so for the max height of the dome). The "bottle" wouldn't be as tall as the source material in this interpretation, but it still gives a good bottle city feeling.

On the general subject of the other lunar cities, here's some thoughts:

Port Luna: I see this one as a sort of ring city surrounding Tranquility Base National Park. The landing site itself is maintained as pristine wilderness with the city growing up along the boundaries. Unlike Kandor, this one is all pressurized buildings and connecting walkways. Think Rapture but in vaccuum instead of underwater.

Moonbase Alpha: A much more industrial city, this one maps more to the current concept art for a NASA moonbase; lots of buried structures, open landing pads, that sort of thing.

Thoughts?
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[robkelk]

In fact, I've envisioned Kandor City from the start as looking like it was in a giant glass bottle... although I haven't given too much thought to the cork, to be honest.

That's were the spaceport is.

Now, whether they pull the cork out every time a ship enters or leaves is another question...

Moonbase Alpha: A much more industrial city, this one maps more to the current concept art for a NASA moonbase; lots of buried structures, open landing pads, that sort of thing.

You mean like http://bigeye.com.sapo.pt/space1999alpha.html]this plan?
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

"Come see the scenic nuclear waste dump!"
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

That's were the spaceport is.

And here I go and type that then erase it from my message for being too silly. I shoulda known better in this crowd.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Norgarth]

robkelk wrote:

---

In fact, I've envisioned Kandor City from the start as looking like it was in a giant glass bottle... although I haven't given too much thought to
the cork, to be honest.

That's were the spaceport is.




Now, whether they pull the cork out every time a ship enters or leaves is another question...

Moonbase Alpha: A much more industrial city, this one maps more to the current concept art for a NASA moonbase; lots of buried structures,
open landing pads, that sort of thing.

You mean like this plan?

Heh, nice to know I wasn't the only one to make that connection. I guess we know where the 'Space 1999' fen settled. (if there are any)
___________________________
"I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." - George Carlin

[Ebony]

Heh, nice to know I wasn't the only one to make that connection. I guess we know where the 'Space 1999' fen settled. (if there are any)

I'd say that it would probably be just the non-Whovian British Sci-Fi fen as a whole. Space: 1999, Blake's 7, Sapphire & Steel, and the
whole Gerry Anderson set (leading the commander of Moon Base Alpha to have the title of "Captain Scarlet"). Maybe some influence from 2000 A.D.
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."

[Cobalt Greywalker]

OK, here's one 'Oh Christ it's WHAT in the Morning?!?' early conglomeration draft of a Luna write up that needs tonnes more work.

---

LUNA

Holding the unique distinction of being the only other celestial body Man had personally visited pre wave, Earth's moon Luna (or simply The Moon) is the most populus body in Fenspace.

The largest city in Fenspace is Kandor City, based around The Watchtower in Crater Posidonius A. The city has a population of 350,000, and hosts the Metahuman Power Biomodification Research Institute (Supers faction home base), Kandor City Hospital, and the base for the Soviet Air Force "Central Committee" among others.

The Watchtower is the oldest structure on Luna, and lifts a remarkable 1400m from the surface among its sprawling supports on the south-western lip of the crater. The old part of the city along with the old docks and warehouse district are based around these supports and inside the crater, with the actual living area in glass covers sections between the supports on the craters inner rim. Eventually, the fen got inspired (or bored) and built a full bell-like dome over the entire crater. This dome reaches 3Km over the center of the crater and 800m above the height of the Watchtower. The light shinning off it makes it the only man-made structure to be visible by the naked eye from Earth.

Inside the dome, the Supers who built it took advantage of the free space to lay out a clean, tidy, and surprisingly green city. Whilst the old town is crowded, the new city takes the best features of the various cities in fiction and combines them. As such, there is an arrangement of sectors in a series of three rings (Main, Rim, and Outer for those parts outside the crater) split into 12 hour wedges and a core sector. Each of the sectors is linked by the Kandor City Maglev train system and the Heavy Cargo Transport system on the crater rim.

In the Core sector in the centre of the dome is the Trinity Towers arcology. This is a slightly modified version of the Sky City concept from Takenaka Corporation. Being built to the Japanese building code in respect of the country the design came from, the three 1.5km tall 'cities in a building' will dominate the surrounding landscape. When finished in late 2014, each will provide housing for 50,000 people, and workspace for another 100,000. The three towers would be linked by an upper core housing the cities internal airport and main embassies. The Japanese government is officially watching the project, which may gain Clark Universal Construction an Earth-side contract.

On the North side in sectors Rim-12 to Rim-01 are the new Kandor City docks and warehouse district. Also here are the lots of the Silvery Moon Films studios. The heavy industries line the rim of the crater to the west of this area (Rim-11 and Outer-11).

The Watchtower and old docks take up Outer-08, with the Old Town (including such things as Question Alley, the Paragon City Saloon, and Dr J's hardware store).

To the south of the Watchtower are the Metahuman Biomodification Research Centre (a.k.a. Star Labs) and the emergency docks of Kandor City Hospital (Rim-07).

Further round in Rim-06, surrounded by the unique Kandor Bell species of Dandy (taken as the symbol of the place) is the Nekomi Institute of Technology. The Supers running it are gradually getting their courses accredited by 'Daneside authorities, with the first full Degrees due to finish in May 2014. Already N.I.T. is becoming known for its wide variety of clubs, especially its Motor Club which currently holds the record for the fastest ground level circumnavigation of Luna at the equator.

The new business district is in Main-08, containing the offices of the various companies in the City, with the new shopping district in Main-09.

The current residential district takes up Rim and Main ring sections 05 and 04.

Current plans for the rest involve local terraforming to make arable land and induce a permanent 1G area for cattle. The rumored plans to en-dome the entire main Posidonius crater are strongly denied.

To the south on Dorsa Smirnov, the Senshi maintain their Moon Kingdom memorial outpost.

Even further south is Port Luna. Here the US Coast Guard has set up shop to prevent the 'vandalisation' of the site of Man's first extra planetary mission. Port Luna helps serve Tranquillity Base National Park, which it surrounds in a ring of pressurised buildings and connecting walkways. The only United States National Park that is not actually on Earth, Tranquillity Base encompasses a 25-square-mile region centred on the Apollo 11 landing site. A transparent lunar-glass wall over ten meters in height fences off the actual landing site from tourists in order to preserve Armstrong and Aldrin's footprints and the equipment they left behind, but the wall is handwavium-enhanced and will provide magnified images. A nearby Visitor's Centre houses a museum, a theatre in which a 20-minute film about the Apollo 11 mission runs on continuous loop, and a scale model of the site which can be explored with interactive camera drones. The land was originally claimed by Fen, who donated it to the US government on the condition they turn it all into a National Park. The other Apollo landing sites are covered as World Heritage Sites and have 3km exclusion zones.

All except the Apollo 14 landing site. While the lander & immediate area are locked off as historical sites, the rest of the surrounding territory has been converted into the Shepard Memorial Golf Course, the first PGA-approved (well, sort of; they slipped the documents in and got the signatures anyway) 18-hole course offworld.

Near the Luna North Pole is Moonbase Alpha. A more hardtech approach to a city, Moonbase Alpha is more an industrial centre than a place to live. It's also near completely self-sufficient and operates an underground hazardous materials storage site on the Luna dark-side.

Also on the dark side of Luna are the Mare Marginis Construction Sites where the Venus Crystal Cities were constructed and the Senshi's main shipbuilding site exists.

At the Luna South Pole in the Shackleton Crater complex. This is run by the Artemis Corporation and the various Luna colonisation societies in co-operation. Shackleton Crater mines the small amount of ice and hydrogen to be found here, as well as mounts the Blind Io Luna Observatory Complex.

[Foxboy]

Okay, that would put Vulpine Fury's Shop and the Kandor version of Atlas Park in... Rim 8 or Outer 7. I'm thinking Rim 8 to fit my existing
description. He might joke directions to his shop as "Somewhere around 7:30."

The Outer/Rim/Main designations are on the train stations, but Kandorians can tell out-of-towners by their usage of the sterile designations rather than the
sub-neighborhood nicknames most of the segments have. Early on, there were fights as to which district got to be called Metropolis, Gotham, and so on. I'd
say the immediate environs of the Watchtower are "Old Kandor."

I figure that there may be a situation of each pie-slice taking a name from comics. Astro City, Paragon, Dynatron, Metropolis, Central/Keystone, Kandor Proper,
Attilan, Gotham, Empire, Genosha just for examples. Attilan, being a Moon City, will have been heavily proposed by Marvel fen miffed that the city as as whole
is named for something from the "Distinguished Competition."
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[M Fnord]

The light shinning off it makes it the only man-made structure to be visible by the naked eye from Earth.

I'll have more substantial things to say at some point, but I would just like to say that inverting this cliche is a thing of beauty.

ETA: Okay, promised something more substantial, so here's a (very) rough sketch of Kandor City as it stands:



The small circle in the center is the Core district, which is unfortunately a little too small in this sketch to show much of anything.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[robkelk]

Is there a larger version of that map, Mal?

I first read "Nekomi Institute of Technology" as "Nekomimi Institute of Technology", and I read volume 28 of Oh My Goddess (the first half of which takes place at NIT) yesterday; maybe that font's too small?

Digression: I assume Sora gets to either attend or guest-lecture at NIT...

 
 
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[M Fnord]

Oh, sure. Just updated the map to add a horizontal elevation for scale purposes. Just right-click on the map for a full scale copy.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Cobalt Greywalker]

I do have a very rough diagram of the layout I used for placing things that I can email Fnord if he wants, but the main difference (besides not having actual locations on it) is how the rings are structured. Each of the rings is 2Km deep, which leaves a 3km diameter core for Trinity Towers to be built up in. If you think that's too big, unfortunatly the Sky City towers they're modifications on have a base about 400m wide.

See http://media.dsc.discovery.com/converge ... ctive.html]The Discovery Channel's site for how I envisioned it, and http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e/te ... 63_sky.htm]Takenaka Corporation's site for a look at the tower design.

(Both links came from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_City_1000]the Wikipedia entry.)

[M Fnord]

Something like this then, if I'm reading you right: Link to map image because I really need to be getting to work right now.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Cobalt Greywalker]

The original was more or less fine with everything in the correct position, but the rings on the new one look more like how I envisioned. I've sent you an
email with my quick and dirty layout diagrams, so hope that helps.

[M Fnord]

Hokay, so if I'm reading your sketches correctly the Rim, Main & Core sectors are under the dome, with the outer ring outside. Hm.

(Oh, that I'm at work and not in front of my trusty home box with Illustrator! Woe!)

How about this as a proposal: We trim the Outer sector off the diagram completely, instead have that grow in semi-organic fashion as needed, like suburbs.
Since the city proper is under the dome, everything is either inside or straddling the dome (like the Watchtower, Korolev AFB and the spaceport).
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[M Fnord]

Totally random thought: Does anybody have a good handle on how *deep* Posidonius A is? Or what the interior grade is? Just looking at a couple photos makes it
look like it's a pretty steep grade on the inside. We might want to think about looking for another location in Serenatis if that's not gonna fly...
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Cobalt Greywalker]

Hokay, so if I'm reading your sketches correctly the Rim, Main & Core sectors are under the dome, with the outer ring outside. Hm.

(Oh, that I'm at work and not in front of my trusty home box with Illustrator! Woe!)

How about this as a proposal: We trim the Outer sector off the diagram completely, instead have that grow in semi-organic fashion as needed, like suburbs. Since the city proper is under the dome, everything is either inside or straddling the dome (like the Watchtower, Korolev AFB and the spaceport).

Probably a good idea. It was just a way for me to arrange things, and I did state it was an early alpha.

Totally random thought: Does anybody have a good handle on how *deep* Posidonius A is? Or what the interior grade is? Just looking at a couple photos makes it look like it's a pretty steep grade on the inside. We might want to think about looking for another location in Serenatis if that's not gonna fly...

Damn. If I'm reading the maps right (found from links http://the-moon.wikispaces.com/Posidonius]here), Posidonius A is 900m-1200m deep (compared to the surrounding landscape) and fairly steep around the rim. Not unworkable, but a bit of a chore.

[M Fnord]

Hm, I pulled a source here that gives Posi A a depth of 2000m. Of course, I might not be working from recent data (& I can't get the wikispaces links to work right on my office computer).
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Cobalt Greywalker]

Depth in relation to Luna surface? Remember it's a crater in a crater.

The Luna Chart I used is http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/mapcatalog/LAC/lac42/]here.

The USGS map that I used as co-oberation is http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/mapcatalog/usgs/I489/]here. (Yes, that IS a United States Geological Survey map of The Moon.)

In both cases Posidonius is in the top right-hand corner.

[M Fnord]

Depth in relation to Luna surface? Remember it's a crater in a crater.

 

Rim to floor, the usual method. Dunno how deep it is compared to the Posidonius floor or to whatever metric the lunar median is.

In any case, having returned home to the power of Illustrator, I whipped up a quick guide to see what the slope looks like (assuming a reasonably perfect elipsoid impact crater) based on the measurements I found:



(right-click & View Image for a legible version)

As you can see, the slope really isn't as bad as I had originally feared. It's pretty hairy at the very edge of the Rim sector, but we can make that work for us with a little imagination. The only really flat territory seems to be in the Core, and mostly under the Trinity Towers footprint.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[M Fnord]

Another handful of hours, and another sketch. This image (warning: large) represents some rearranging of the sectors based on a better understanding of what Cobalt was aiming for, plus a look at how crater depth affects the overall elevation & whatnot. Judging by the USGS map, something in the 1200-1500m range is probably the "right" depth for Posi A short of tracking down laser altimeter data from Clementine or something equally accurate.

Thoughts?
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"