[RFC][IMG] Making the Peace(maker)

[Star Ranger4]

Sorry guys.  Things have been kinda hairy on my end.  :p
The
primary finish of most Roughrider ships (with the notable exception of
Blackbirds) is mirror-finish chrome in honor of the Apollo Astronauts,
whose capsules were finished in a similar manner.  On the Peacemaker,
it'll still have the blacked-out area over the nose simply to keep any
glare from the Sun out of the command crew's collective faces.  Of
course, this is gonna be one of those matte black finishes.
The Air Force roundels should be replaced with Republic of Texas flags
and the SAC shield with the Gonzalez Banner.
Every Peacemaker is a flagship, so it would only be appropriate that the
Unit Patch would be proudly displayed as tail art.
And, of course, replace USAF and US AIR FORCE with RR and ROUGH RIDERS.
(EDIT:
Oh yeah, and nix the checker marks on the landing gear doors, tail-fin
tips, and the yellow on the propeller hubs and engine intakes.  I don't
think I've ever seen a picture of a B-36 like that before and it looks
ghastly to my eyes.)
F-EZigs are carried on pylons under the
wings, between each engine (with the last ones outboard of the fusion
torch engines).  Properly fitted, a Peacemaker can touch down and take
off at a 'Dane-side airfield with its F-EZig accompaniment docked.
By
all means, Star, hack away.    And I don't lay sole claim to the
F-EZigs.  If I like what I see, I'll just say, "Yeah, Roughriders got
those, too." 
One final thing... Ben wouldn't be so evil as to
make that many people operate on a forward-deployed basis like that...
He'd give them several small facilities, hidden in the Belt on which
they can rest, recuperate... and, when needed, scramble and come flying
like bats outta hell.  It wouldn't even have to be an asteroid.  It
could be a small space station.  Nothing huge, probably on the same
scale as the ISS because it would have food, living quarters, plus parts
and munitions for the entire squadron.  (At this point, I'm gonna say
that a typical Roughrider Squadron is two Blackbirds, twelve F-EZigs,
and a Peacemaker.  Peacemaker carries eight F-EZigs each and each BB
piggybacks two more - their hulls are so short, after all.)
Long
duration configuration on a Peacemaker would probably be three-of-four
modular bays fitted with a living unit (racks for the entire crew plus
eight fighter pilots, plus galley and hygiene) and one heavy missile
unit (incase they run across something really tough).
For
more flavor, Peacemakers, despite being well built machines, are quirked
to break down in some bizarre way.  However, during the design phase
Ben did foresee a need for them to be easy to work on. 
Therefore, most breakdowns can be repaired in-flight by the flight
engineer.  Therefore, you can have the engineer grumbling about some
repair he/she just finished up (easy to work on, yes - convenient, no).
For
the flight engineer... you could use that character I thought up that
riffed off of All Purpose Cultural Catgirl Nuku Nuku... she was the one
that started out as a farm girl who just wanted to help her dad out by
making sure the tractor never broke down again... and got herself a very
unique kind of catgirl biomod.  (The 'bio' part of that is debatable as
she is roughly 20% cybernetic now.)  Ah, yes!  Here she is: http://drunkardswalkforums.yuku.com/topic/5426
Someday I am really gonna have to do a better job getting some of this stuff wikified so it's not a big question mark.  :p
EDIT2:
Just for scale, Star.  Nothing really brings home the sense of scale on this thing like this picture.  Yes, those are chairs they're sitting in.

Splitting this off into its own thread to deconflict and not overrun the more general wiki management thread:

two different models from two different sources.  I have a sneaking suspicion that part of what is going on here is that the bottom of the two was based on a scale of 1unit = 1 foot imperial, while the upper is in the more conventional 1 blender unit = 1meter.  of more import is the relative size of the long EZ (base hull for the E-ZFig class) in relationship to the bombers.  Which looks more correct to you?  I'm inclined to believe its the smaller of the two b-36 models; though if true I am slighly worried that the EZ's arnt going to completly fit the way BA originally wants them to.  Still early, but since this could wind up being official materials I want input from both BA (as the originator) as well as the rest of the groupmind.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[M Fnord]

Based on my admittedly hasty BOTE calculations a Long-EZ is roughly 1/9 the length of a B-36, so the smaller model looks closer to correct. Hard to tell that from the angle of the shot, though.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Star Ranger4]

Hard to tell that from the angle of the shot, though.

does that help any?
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[M Fnord]

It does, and... hum. Bear in mind that I'm doing this with a ruler, a sheet of notepaper and the monitor, so none of this is 100% exact.

But... The smaller model is closer to accurate. It's also too big by maybe 5-6 meters. The Long-EZ is 5.12 m long, and the B-36 is 49.42 m long. The smaller model comes out to ~52-54 m long (again, ruler, notepaper and monitor, this is all eyeballing, etc.). So yeah, the small model's in the ballpark for "right" which is about all I can say visually without having the model's length/width/height/etc in units.

ETA: Or, it could be that the scale of the Long-EZ is off, that's also a possibility.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Dartz]

Of course, there's no reason they have to be exact replicas?

They may have been modified beyond standard to meet the specified requirements.... a little extension in the middle or so to accomodate the extra bulk of the Zigs (Are there any Zags? And Zuppy Recon Drones). Zigs probably need to be fitted with folding wings to get in....
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[Star Ranger4]

First conversion pass. Fixed gear removed (temporarily) to be replaced with retractable gear. Fuzion torches installed. Not sure if I like the present visual effect I have with them.  Coilgun looks like it would fit best in the nose.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Star Ranger4]

positioned under wing for spacing check. I dunno about you all but it looks to me like they need folding wings if they're gonna fit like BA wants...
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Black Aeronaut]

positioned under wing for spacing check. I dunno about you all but it looks to me like they need folding wings if they're gonna fit like BA wants...

Concur.
Sorry I haven't been on lately, I'm just wrapping up a huge clusterfuck my temp agency started when they couldn't get payroll done on time.  I'll come back with a more detailed response by tomorrow or the day after.

[Star Ranger4]

split off outer wing sections prior to folding, added initial weapon placement thoughts


My take on how to fold the wings to best fit
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Star Ranger4]

Roughrider Blackbird


(edit:  texture corrected to use Amarillo USAF TTF)

in FICON configuration:


Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[M Fnord]

Huh, Helvetica for the markings? I'd have thought Microgramma or Eurostile, or maybe one of the common-use military typefaces.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[firvulag]

The Zigs look good.  Although I wonder about the nose mounted coil-gun.  It does look good there, but is there enough room for the barrel and ammunition feed?  The Zig is a little over 5 meters long, and it (potentially) only has one seat instead of the 2 a Long-EZ has, so there's more room.  Hmm.  I think we can make it work like this.

-- 
'It's in "Computational Science" whatever that is. He did start 
telling me about it, and it seems to involve a lot of maths, but I lost 
the will to live about ten seconds into his explanation.''
  -- Edward Pierce

[robkelk]

Huh, Helvetica for the markings? I'd have thought Microgramma or Eurostile, or maybe one of the common-use military typefaces.

Helvetica is pretty close to the font they used on the Space Shuttle - maybe that's why SR used it. (Or maybe it was just what was available...)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Star Ranger4]

Eheheh... Mostly cause its my sans serif system default so thats what Gimp threw up.

And your exactly right about the way I was thinking Firvulag. Also considering both a) shortening the overall canopy, b) moving the rear seat slightly forward to allow for more 'fuel tankage' behind the pilot and c) making some additional canopy changes to decrease the area that has to be 'sealed' at the bottom of the access tube to allow for pilot access
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Star Ranger4]

As you can see, the wing folded model does fit much better under the wing. Unfolding them prior to launch might be a problem though.

A possibility to consider is to trim the wings, perhaps as short as placing the vertical stabilizers just outboard of where the 'fold' is.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Ace Dreamer]

As you can see, the wing folded model does fit much better under the wing. Unfolding them prior to launch might be a problem though.

A possibility to consider is to trim the wings, perhaps as short as placing the vertical stabilizers just outboard of where the 'fold' is.

Under what circumstances might the wings be functional?  Do you need them to convince the handwavium they're highly maneoverable?
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind

[robkelk]

Wings are useful in atmosphere, which in Fenspace includes Venus, Titan, and (to a lesser extent) Mars... Oh, and Earth, too.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[HRogge]

Wings are useful in atmosphere, which in Fenspace includes Venus, Titan, and (to a lesser extent) Mars... Oh, and Earth, too.

Yes, something completely without atmospheric drag in mind will be difficult to handle, especially at high speed.

[Ace Dreamer]

One reason the aerodynamically-shaped force field can become a bit of a necessity.
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind

[Star Ranger4]

wing fold animation test
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Black Aeronaut]

eeeeeyeah.  SOP will be to unfold the wings after they're dropped... on simple account of there just not being enough room.

Eheheh... Mostly cause its my sans serif system default so thats what Gimp threw up.

And your exactly right about the way I was thinking Firvulag. Also
considering both a) shortening the overall canopy, b) moving the rear
seat slightly forward to allow for more 'fuel tankage' behind the pilot
and c) making some additional canopy changes to decrease the area that
has to be 'sealed' at the bottom of the access tube to allow for pilot
access

In regards to the font... I like Amarillo USAF.  It's perfect for Roughriders ships.
Hmmm...  Early model F-EZigs would probably have the enlarged fuel tank space... and even after Ben introduces Cool Cukes to their fleet, the F-EZigs will still need that extra bit of room to accomodate the reactors.
Something that I've given a bit of thought to is how atmosphere is handled inside the cockpits of RR fighter craft.  Simply put, it isn't.  Thing is, in space combat atmosphere can be a real liability.  Not only can your ship get punched full of holes, but it has a nasty tendency transfer energy in the forms of heat and kinetic force (shock waves).  And then there is the pain in the ass that it is to find leaks and patch them.  So instead, the pilots have lightly armored vacuum-rated flight suits inside completely voided cockpits.  They connect to the fighter for life support and have small emergency units in the back in case the pilot has to ditch.  And the suit itself is much easier to patch that the entire cockpit (which may hide a leak behind some instrument panel - thanks but no thanks).  Or hell, you can even go one step further and give the suits a two-part gel layer that automatically foams when the layer between the two is breached, forming an instant patch.
In atmo, the cockpits can be flooded with breathable air, but at least this way the cockpit-canopy seals do not have to be vacuum rated.
Peacemakers will be a different story.  Crew compartments will be pressurized, but in combat the crew will don suits and the compartments voided of air.  Crawl spaces in the wings will not be pressurized.

The
Zigs look good.  Although I wonder about the nose mounted coil-gun.  It
does look good there, but is there enough room for the barrel and
ammunition feed?  The Zig is a little over 5 meters long, and it
(potentially) only has one seat instead of the 2 a Long-EZ has, so
there's more room.  Hmm.  I think we can make it work like this.

In the nose?  I thought the coil guns were to be carried in a pod under the fuselage.  This would make the entire unit self-contained, and rearming can be as simple as swapping the pods out.  (Each Zig can have two coil gun pods.  When they get swapped for repair or rearming, the gunnery crew can do the actual work of repair/rearm when it's convenient.)

[firvulag]

The
Zigs look good.  Although I wonder about the nose mounted coil-gun.  It
does look good there, but is there enough room for the barrel and
ammunition feed?  The Zig is a little over 5 meters long, and it
(potentially) only has one seat instead of the 2 a Long-EZ has, so
there's more room.  Hmm.  I think we can make it work like this.

In the nose?  I thought the coil guns were to be carried in a pod under the fuselage.  This would make the entire unit self-contained, and rearming can be as simple as swapping the pods out.  (Each Zig can have two coil gun pods.  When they get swapped for repair or rearming, the gunnery crew can do the actual work of repair/rearm when it's convenient.)

My original design had a belly pod/mount for the coil gun.  Star's CG has a nose mounting if you look closely.  I think that, given the nature of the craft it could probably be a customer option on placement.

I like and approve of your idea for the lack of pressurization of the cockpit.  The vac-suit with life support hook-ups makes sense.

[Star Ranger4]

mmm, yes I'd moved the coilgun to the nose. 1) there is room there, especially with a single pilot, 2) having it hang off the belly in a separate pod is just begging to have it shot off to me, 3) it was less work.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Duane Peters]

Thought; have the vertical stabilizer fold flat against the wing, *then* fold the wing. Stabilizers would need to unfold after launch, but that's better than the entire wing...

[Star Ranger4]

won't make a difference, the logical fold point is where the wing changes taper, right about where the ailerons and the main landin lights are. the remaining wing section is long enough that it would still impinge on the wing root unless they were hung so low there would be clearance issues on landing in gravity. Nor would it solve the other part of the problem that you still couldnt UNFOLD the wings while docked to the pylon unless the adjacent pylons were empty
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children