It's an important day in Britain today...

[robkelk]

That's right: it's National Cream Tea Day

Remember: clotted cream on your scones, not whipped cream.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

Heh. And here I thought you were going to report on the result of the Brexit vote (which was to leave the EU, by just a couple percentage points).
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[robkelk]

You can get that discussion almost everywhere on the web.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Dartz]

Oops

Anyway. Cream tea. Yes.

I didn't just suddenly find myself 10-15% up on budget on some projects by asking for fresh quotations and 'lead time' estimates from some important suppliers 3-days ago. That's some lovely cream tea.......
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[Pyeknu]

And people wonder why referendums are often stupid...!

[Bob Schroeck]

... And the "do-over" referendum petition is now at 3.2 million signatures. It was a million or so yesterday morning, and 2.5 million last night. I was camping that page for a little while, refreshing every minute or two and watching the signature count jump by a thousand or two each time.

Also, did I misread, or was the original vote actually non-binding?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Dartz]

It's non-binding in the same way a a battlefleet ofshore asking to open trade negotiations is non-binding. 'Technically', you could ignore them, but there'd be ructions soon afterwards.

I find watching it fascinating the same way watching a plane crash is fascinating. It's terrifying for the poor buggers dragged along for the ride, but great popcorn for the rest of us. A whole swath of people are realising that voting for or against something means far more that Fuck You! - it has real consequences which they might not actually want. There's real power in a collective ballot and it should be used for more important things than making David Cameron cry. They're getting a savage and painful lesson in democracy...

Be careful what you vote for.

It's times like this where I remember Starship Troopers and giggle a little.

It's times like this I look at President Trump and feel a little queasy.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[Jinx999]

Basically, a major and unfair criticism of the EU in the UK is that it is a undemocratic imposition on British national sovereignty. This is a major source of the leave vote.
This view is, as I mentioned above, unfair.
If the government decides to ignore the referendum, then this view starts looking very much less unfair.
And holding a repeat would have the entirely predictable consequence of another referendum petition, just from the other side's voters.

[Ankhani]

The Referendum is advisory, not legally binding. It would be analogous to a political coup for HM Government to ignore the results, but nothing happens until the Prime Minister notifies the European Parliament that the UK is activating Article 50 (The "How to Leave the EU" clause).

However, David Cameron has reported that he is resigning in October, and will leave it to his successor to press the BIG RED BUTTON. Cameron is, quite effectively, giving the leaders of the Exit Camp just enough rope to hang themselves with.
---

The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."

>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI

[robkelk]

Dartz wrote:

---

... It's terrifying for the poor buggers dragged along for the ride, ...

Alas, with London being one of the major financial centers of the world's economy, we're all "poor buggers" here to a greater or lesser extent.

The only upside I'm seeing is that, with the Pound Sterling having taken a nosedive, it'll be less expensive to import the "authentic" Earl Grey tea and strawberry jam for cream tea...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

Hm. The signature rate has slowed down considerably in the last 24 hours -- the count is 3.55 million right now -- but it hasn't stopped.

It'll be interesting to see what happens next, regardless.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Black Aeronaut]

You know, I am strongly reminded of a short written by Harlan Ellison. It was a part of a lovely coffee table book entitled Mind Fields: The Art of Jacek Yerka; The Writing of Harlan Ellson. (In essence, Ellison writes what he sees in Yerka's work. It's fucking awesome.)

One piece is entitled Britain, in which Ellison writes about how finally, at long last, all the terrible, horrible, and just plain unpopular wars had finally ended. And that with all that out of the way, Britain could finally get back to cheerfully doing what it had been trying to do for centuries past: chewing off it's own leg.

[Bob Schroeck]

Hm. More news about the new referendum. First: apparently someone is running a bot and flooding the signatures; last I heard some 80K had been removed for being obviously bogus, and more were probably in the offing. Even so, the referendum is at 3.9 million now. Second: The do-over referendum was started by a Leave partisan several months ago, when it looked like Leave was going to lose. He's not happy that it's been hijacked by the other side since the vote. Third: apparently it doesn't matter. The referendum would amount to an ex post facto law if it passed Parliament, which means it can't happen by the rules of Parliament and (IIRC) the Magna Carta. Also, as far as the EU is concerned there's no do-overs either -- they want the UK to invoke article 50 ASAP now that the vote is done, no spending time working out how to separate first.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Black Aeronaut]

The EU better be careful about how they handle this. If they're all like, "And don't let the door hit you on your way out!" then they are not gonna be endearing themselves to the populace of the UK, whether they actually wanted BREXIT to happen or not.

I just hope that the citizens of the UK realize that they only have themselves to blame for not recognizing what was in the offing. Kinda like dealing with a petulant child when they don't like what the consequences of them doubling-down on a bad decision.

[Bob Schroeck]

Well, it didn't help that the Leave politicians were promising things like redirecting the UK's EU contribution directly to NHS and that there would be no economic disruption. As soon as they won they started backpedaling so hard on those promises they were leaving reverse skidmarks.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[robkelk]

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

Hm. More news about the new referendum. First: apparently someone is running a bot and flooding the signatures; last I heard some 80K had been removed for being obviously bogus, and more were probably in the offing. Even so, the referendum is at 3.9 million now.

The Register is reporting that "39,411 signatories came from Vatican City, even though the city state has a permanent population of only 450." Since signatures from outside the UK will be ignored, and the IP address of each signature is recorded, I'd expect many more signatures to be removed.
The Register is also reporting "Your reporter's school class lists here in leafy North London - a bastion of middle class Remain supporters - were hijacked by parents urging others to sign the Second Referendum petition." Shall we tell the hijackers' children that their parents think it's acceptable to lie in order to get what they want?

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

Second: The do-over referendum was started by a Leave partisan several months ago, when it looked like Leave was going to lose. He's not happy that it's been hijacked by the other side since the vote. Third: apparently it doesn't matter. The referendum would amount to an ex post facto law if it passed Parliament, which means it can't happen by the rules of Parliament and (IIRC) the Magna Carta. Also, as far as the EU is concerned there's no do-overs either -- they want the UK to invoke article 50 ASAP now that the vote is done, no spending time working out how to separate first.

Parliament is sovereign - petitions and the wishes of the EU are advisory only.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Black Aeronaut]

.... This is gonna get really ugly, isn't?

[Rajvik]

Of course because, well, politicians and politics
 

[Hazard]

Black Aeronaut wrote:

---

.... This is gonna get really ugly, isn't?

Probably. The Leave politicians have been called out by the current government, which wanted to stay, and they need to put their money where their mouths were when they made all those promises. And if they can't (which is expected) the already uncertain political field of Great Britain is going to see some major shifts and I would expect the collapse of at minimum 1 major party in the then current government.

[Ankhani]

Additionally, If England keeps pushing for Leave, that would very likely spell the end of the UK as a whole with Scotland and Northern Ireland breaking away.
---

The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."

>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI

[nocarename]

Ankhani wrote:

---

Additionally, If England keeps pushing for Leave, that would very likely spell the end of the UK as a whole with Scotland and Northern Ireland breaking away.

And Wales would be pushing to get out as well.

[Hazard]

That'd be quite the feather on the cap of the politicians of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, wouldn't it? 'We decided to quit the EU and every member polity of the Kingdom skipped out on us in turn.'

[Ankhani]

Well, Wales (except for Cardiff and a few boroughs) was largely in favor of Leave, as well.
---

The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."

>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI

[David Lewis]

As a VERY conflicted and weary UK citizen, I have heard one semi-plausible theory as to how the country could get out of this.

It's plausible that the new Prime Minister, be it Boris or someone else, will use the change in leadership of both the Tories and likely Labour (Jeremy Corbin unsurprisingly just lost an internal party no-confidence vote due to his near-universally panned contributions to the Remain campaign) as a face-saving excuse to hold a general election - that the parties all have new leaders and probably platforms and positions is a nice, legitimate reason to call one. If the Labour leader explicitly adopts a 'ignore the referendum' position as the Liberal Democrats have already done (or very unlikely the new Tory leader does too), then the panicking Remain voters and the Bregreters will use it as a chance for a UNDO button. As the news keeps screaming at us, nothing is official until we activate article 50. If the 18-30 year old voters alone showed up in greater number's it'd almost certainly swing it for cancelling. (Of the 18-30 population over 75% were in favour of Remain, but only 25% of the eligible voters actually turned up to vote.)

Failing that, the idea of a Scotland Veto isn't completely out of the question depending on how desperate the higher ups are for a valid excuse to undo it. Or Her Majesty could speak in public in a disapproving tone about the leaving plans - she so rarely ever comments on politics that it'd be a weighty event. (Very unlikely but not impossible)

Or it could be true that the media is inflating all this hysteria, and after what I assume will be a VERY rocky and destitute decade or so, that Britain would end up stronger for leaving. Except for the loss of 50% of the Union, and god knows how much economic and international prestige and prosperity in the process. Sigh.

Or the EU could actually start implementing reforms and listening to it's internal critics - as likely as baboons flying out of Nigel Farage's ass, but hey-ho.

In summation i'd like to quote a trending tweet - "The US and UK are currently having a 'who can screw up their country the most' competition. The UK is ahead, but the US has the Trump Card!"

[ordnance11]

Do you really think the rest of the EU will just shrug and say "okay no harm no foul"? The French are in a vindictive mood. They want the Brits to start implementation. If Boris gets to be the new PM he should start implementing on first day in office.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell