Why I won't be travelling to the USA any time soon

[robkelk]

Simply put, the US government appears to not want people to visit the USA. I say that because of the measures they are putting into place at border crossings with Canada.

Opinion piece by a Ph.D. candidate in American Studies at Rutgers: Canadians travelling to or through U.S. should pay close attention to their withering rights

The United States and Canada share what's been known as the longest undefended border in the world, because of the neighbourly sentiment between the nations. Now defence has become irrelevant, because Canadian lawmakers have effectively invited an invasion by U.S. border authorities.

Even if a Canadian official is "unwilling" to conduct a search or has deemed a detainment unnecessary, a U.S. official can override that call. In other words, Canadian law enforcement can now be countermanded within Canada by Americans.

This new authority also allows U.S. border guards to deny Canadians their right of withdrawal. Before the amendment to the law was enacted, if a person felt at all uncomfortable in the course of preclearance questioning she could simply leave, retracting her intention to cross the border with no penalty.

Now, as a result of amendments, the guard is entitled to detain her if he finds "reasonable grounds" to do so. And the request to leave in itself could be construed as reasonable grounds.

Scarier still is the provision that undergirds every amendment to the agreement: that U.S. border officials will not be held accountable for impropriety.

In the exact language of the bill, "no action or civil proceeding may be brought against a U.S. preclearance officer in respect of anything that is done or omitted in the exercise of their powers, or the performance of their duties and functions under the legislation."

So there will be no repercussions for anything committed in the exercise of their powers.

(emphasis is in the original article)


If that's how the USA wants to treat visitors even before they arrive in the USA, I'll spend my vacation money elsewhere.

[Dartz]

And here I was thinking of going to DC in 2021.

Fucking hell. It's like the entire country's being turned into one massive anti-prison.

[classicdrogn]

Gotta keep those filthy illegals out, they're creeping along every border just itching to sneak in and steal American jobs, don't you know? Upstanding rich white christian male vacationers will certainly have nothing to worry about! [/sarcasm]

[robkelk]

And here I was thinking of going to DC in 2021.

Fucking hell. It's like the entire country's being turned into one massive anti-prison.

If you still want to visit a federal capital city in North America, I can state with certainty that Ottawa's a lovely place to visit. British Airways flies Dublin - Heathrow - Toronto - Ottawa, and Air Canada flies Dublin - Toronto - Ottawa. (Other airlines connect through Newark; if you're feeling the same way that I am, you'll want to avoid that stopover.)

You might also want to read Avoiding travel through the United States on Vikivoyage.

[Dartz]

I can do the preclearance thing here so, tbh, the US border is actually on Irish soil rather than American - it's in Dublin airport so by the time I get on the plane I've already technically been admitted to the US. Once I get off the plane in NY/DC I'm just leaving the airport rather than going to immigration.

But it's just that bit uncomfortable and unnerving - it was unsettling in 2013 in a way no other border ever has been.

The reason I'd be going to DC would've been DIscon III - New Zealand's too far.

Maybe we'll see what the politics are like next year.

[nocarename]

I was looking at the logistics for doing both DisCon and DragonCon for 2021 myself.

Maybe Pensic too. It'd be a bit of a bender, but what a summer it would be.

[Labster]

Hey, US border entry is uncomfortable for US citizens too.  In LAX you have to wait in three different lines to enter the country, showing your passport at each one.  One robot takes your picture, then an unhappy person looks at the blurry picture you just took, and stamps it with a grunt.  You wait and wait for your luggage.  Then you wait in line one more time, hand the same blurry picture to an unhappy person.  They take your blurry picture for themselves, and grunt if you are allowed in the country.

Somehow the Netherlands could let me in their country with one guy looking at my passport and asking me one question: "You're from California."  "Yep."  "OK, thanks."  Much better English.

I think I could manage Worldcon in 2021, though.  If you're planning to go, fly into National Airport if at all possible so as to avoid the hour ride into DC, or hour-plus from Baltimore.  It's on the metro, much easier. Fun fact, you can tell that I'm a liberal by the fact I say "National Airport" -- conservatives call it "Reagan Airport".  There is a compromise option to say "Reagan National Airport" if you really want to keep to protocol.

[hazard]

That's because of two things Lab.

The first is that being law enforcement requires an actual education. The shortest track in the police is 2 years or so, and at that point you'll be allowed to go out alone onto the streets and write tickets.

The second is that law enforcement officer culture is vastly different with the USA's. An officer that is unapproachable is useless, because when the people are afraid of their law enforcement they are unwilling to help solve the crimes that plague their community and rather try and resolve it themselves.

Dutch policing is kinda odd compared to most other nations.

[robkelk]

... Fun fact, you can tell that I'm a liberal by the fact I say "National Airport" -- conservatives call it "Reagan Airport".  There is a compromise option to say "Reagan National Airport" if you really want to keep to protocol.

Showing my family's bias, I call it DCA.

...

The second is that law enforcement officer culture is vastly different with the USA's. An officer that is unapproachable is useless, because when the people are afraid of their law enforcement they are unwilling to help solve the crimes that plague their community and rather try and resolve it themselves.

Dutch policing is kinda odd compared to most other nations.

Sounds like what we want Canadian police to be... and what Canadian police sometimes (but not always, alas) are.

[Dartz]

Coming home from Japan, I marched past Irish customs with a suitcase clinking with about 5 times the duty-free allowance of Whiskey - right down the green lane - and nobody gave a fuck. There was one Garda on duty on the border and when the automatic system couldn't read my passport I just hopped the barrier and carried on while he was bothered with the other hundred people getting off the flight.

They spent ten months considering deporting a Chinese boy who was born here - but didn't have citizenship due to 'circumstances' - and basically just dropped it because it was obvious he should be permitted to stay.

There's more US vborder patrol in Dublin airport than Irish.

Thjat said - if you're here on a single entry visa to Ireland and take a tourist trip to the North your arse is deported when you go back down the road. That happens a lot.

[Labster]

Since this seems to have morphed into the next Worldcon thread, I'll note that DisCon III in DC has moved forward the date to December 15-19, 2021.  Having been freshly vaccinated myself, this seems feasible.