All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXX

[Bob Schroeck]

Old thread is here.

[robkelk]

I've tossed together a quick-and-dirty DPL list of pages that use both Category:Musicians and Category:Music. As we agreed in the old thread, the desired state of that list is empty, so I didn't bother making it pretty.

[robkelk]

Oh, Bog.,..

48 edits dropped into the Mod queue in an hour and a half, all to entry-pimp something called "Taerel".

Is there any way to bulk check these edits for copyright compliance?

[Bob Schroeck]

Is there any way to bulk check these edits for copyright compliance?

If there is, I never learned about it. Might be a good idea to build a tool to do that, but it'd have to be flexible. Not all the copyright violations I've found have actually come from the same page at TVT as they were added to on ATT.

As for "Taerel", that rings a bell. Let me do some looking.

<a few minutes later> Ah, yeah. We have a page for Taerel created about two and a half years ago by someone called "Eytirth" -- who was creating pages for it here and at TVT simultaneously. If Eytirth is the contributor responsible for the flood, I think it's likely that any apparent copying is just him echoing his own work over to us.

[Labster]

It's Eytirth, they're bugging me in Discord about approving edits.

[Bob Schroeck]

Okay, I just looked at a sampling of his edits. They all appear to be just transferring trope entries from the Taerel page (where they've already been approved) to the relevant trope pages. However, that's exactly what it is -- a simple cut'n'paste, with no thought to necessary context. For instance, "Alien Sky":

* ''[[Taerel]]'': Taerel has a strange sky with three moons, one on the West, one on the North and one on the East. This is stated in the Diwarale Kin'toni Clan's page.

With no indication what the "Diwarale Kin'toni Clan's page" is or where it can be found.

We don't have to worry about copyright infringement -- or at least any more than we did for the main page itself -- but we're going to have to check them to make sure that what he cut'n'pasted isn't lacking important context.

they're bugging me in Discord about approving edits.

Point them at the notice that explicitly says "72-hour turnaround". And mention that they only posted the edits like six hours ago. We've nearly banned people for being obnoxious about approving edits before.

[Labster]

Okay, I just looked at a sampling of his edits.  They all appear to be just transferring trope entries from the Taerel page (where they've already been approved) to the relevant trope pages.  However, that's exactly what it is -- a simple cut'n'paste, with no thought to necessary context.  For instance, "Alien Sky":

* ''[[Taerel]]'': Taerel has a strange sky with three moons, one on the West, one on the North and one on the East. This is stated in the Diwarale Kin'toni Clan's page.

With no indication what the "Diwarale Kin'toni Clan's page" is or where it can be found.

We don't have to worry about copyright infringement -- or at least any more than we did for the main page itself -- but we're going to have to check  them to make sure that what he cut'n'pasted isn't lacking important context.

they're bugging me in Discord about approving edits.

Point them at the notice that explicitly says "72-hour turnaround".  And mention that they only posted the edits like six hours ago.  We've nearly banned people for being obnoxious about approving edits before.

... and apparently this guy also uses Moderation on his own wiki.  Yeah not liking them that much.

Actually the idea of reusing descriptions raises an interesting question.  I remember the day back when someone at TVT was thinking about rewriting the software so that wicks were automatically backlinked.  Of course, it doesn't work, because the context you need is different depending on which page you're on.

But I have been thinking a bit about Wikidata and Wikibase, where it would be possible to establish those kinds of relationships.  Basically, the underlying structure of everything on wikibase is a triple, Q -- P --> Q'.  One item connects to another by a property.  Or in graph terms, each node Q is linked to another node Q' by an edge P.  All you need to do is add a statement (aka edge aka triple relationship) pointing the other direction.  Add a qualifier to each statement which describes the relationship, and you basically have our system of trope descriptions in a database form.  Add another qualifier with a drop-down menu for metatropes (played straight, inverted, etc).

Well, kinda.  You can't capture the creativity on formatting page, nor refer to previous examples.  Or even arrange things.  It would still be cool to have a database, that's something TVT doesn't have at all.

Or would it?  Is there any demand for a database, or do people just like reading pages?  You could do things like query the most commonly used tropes in anime, or find out which genres have the most tropes in common, or even find similar shows based on shared tropes.  That still isn't useful to me, but it's a thought of something we could decide to do.

[Labster]

I've tossed together a quick-and-dirty DPL list of pages that use both Category:Musicians and Category:Music. As we agreed in the old thread, the desired state of that list is empty, so I didn't bother making it pretty.

Actually I think we want a {{musician}} template instead of {{creator}}, because we probably want to enable some subpages not listed under creator.  More than anyone else musicians have their whole body of work assigned to the musician's page, and thus all of the tropes.

[robkelk]

I'm not sure we need a separate header for musicians, though... or, if we do, then we need separate headers for other types of creators as well.

Our current Creator page layout is, if I recall correctly:

1. {{creator}}
   
2. optional Image
   
3. optional Page Quote
   
4. Description
   
5. *ography section (Discography, Bibliography, Filmography, etc)
   
6. Creatrotropes section
   
7. optional Stinger
   
8. {{reflist}}
   
9. optional navboxes
   
10. Category:{{PAGENAME}}
    
11. category cloud
    

in that order.

What do musicians need that other creators don't?

[robkelk]

... that's something TVT doesn't have at all.

We've managed to get away from the idea that "TVT has this, therefore we must have it".

Let's avoid the idea that "TVT doesn't have this, therefore we must have it".

Both extremes are bad. Feature ideas should be decided on their own merits, not on whether somebody else does or doesn't have the feature.

[GethN7]

... that's something TVT doesn't have at all.

We've managed to get away from the idea that "TVT has this, therefore we must have it".

Let's avoid the idea that  "TVT doesn't have this, therefore we must have it".

Both extremes are bad. Feature ideas should be decided on their own merits, not on whether somebody else does or doesn't have the feature.

I've come to agree with Rob. Feature parity is great, but better to enhance what we already do to be better as opposed to bolting on new features constantly unless they are germane to our first objective.

[Labster]

... that's something TVT doesn't have at all.

We've managed to get away from the idea that "TVT has this, therefore we must have it".

Let's avoid the idea that  "TVT doesn't have this, therefore we must have it".

Both extremes are bad. Feature ideas should be decided on their own merits, not on whether somebody else does or doesn't have the feature.

I've come to agree with Rob. Feature parity is great, but better to enhance what we already do to be better as opposed to bolting on new features constantly unless they are germane to our first objective.

I guess neither of you have used wikidata, because it really wouldn't be a new feature so much as an entirely separate wiki-ish database, from which data could be pulled.

Anyway, I enabled Special:UnusedRedirect.  It really, really doesn't like to spit out anything above 500 pages, so you get to see letters A and B.  Some of them are kind of expected, like redirects to categories.  We want them to be searchable – but not the tag-type categories – so I don't think we could just turn on search for the category pages.  Subpage redirects, though, those seem pretty deleteable.

[Bob Schroeck]

I've been noticing an unusual number of "Something went wrong" error pages from both ATT and the KanriKyara wiki over the past few days, and this morning it looks like the search function is at best working only intermittently.

[robkelk]

Work expands to the processor power available for it. How's the overall load on Orain?

[Labster]

Work expands to the processor power available for it. How's the overall load on Orain?

The load is expanding bigly.  Lots of red lights in Grafana.

We're hosting over 9000 active wikis now -- but I still blame AIs for all of the requests.

[GethN7]

On second though, adding a Wikidata like option to help flesh out things like infoboxes would probably be a good idea.

[robkelk]

Work expands to the processor power available for it. How's the overall load on Orain?

The load is expanding bigly.  Lots of red lights in Grafana.

We're hosting over 9000 active wikis now -- but I still blame AIs for all of the requests.

Lots of AI over the long weekend, then.

This morning I'm not even getting the "Something went wrong" 502 page -- I'm just getting repeated connection-failure messages from my browser if I get anything at all. I've lost track of how many times I've had to send the same request twice in a row before getting any response (even an error message).

[robkelk]

On second though, adding a Wikidata like option to help flesh out things like infoboxes would probably be a good idea.

If the server has the processor and disc available, then sure, let's do this.

[robkelk]

Since whenever I go away for the night (I have to sleep some time) the "Missing end tag" Lint Error count goes up, I'm measuring my progress a different way now. Pages that match the title prefixes J, K, Q, U, V, W, X, Y, and Z are now off the "Missing end tag" list.

Yes, I know these are the shorter lists. I will take my milestones where I can get them.

[Bob Schroeck]

Eytirth sent me a board-to-board asking for his edits to be reviewed/approved -- two days ago, but I just saw it today. I told him that we've been busy, it's a holiday, and he's not the only one with edits in the mod queue -- and warned him that his simple cut-and-paste was going to result in some large fraction of his edits being rejected (and why). I think it's unlikely any of us are going to get to the mod queue before Monday night or Tuesday, but he has been waiting longer than the 72 hours at this point and really deserves getting prioritized.

[GethN7]

Eytirth sent me a board-to-board asking for his edits to be reviewed/approved -- two days ago, but I just saw it today.  I told him that we've been busy, it's a holiday, and he's not the only one with edits in the mod queue -- and warned him that his simple cut-and-paste was going to result in some large fraction of his edits being rejected (and why).  I think it's unlikely any of us are going to get to the mod queue before Monday night or Tuesday, but he has been waiting longer than the 72 hours at this point and really deserves getting prioritized.

I did the needful and approved the edits. Nigh all are either a crosswiki link or information that does not raise any alarm bells for plagiarism.

[robkelk]

Thanks, Geth.

I've been busy with the lint errors and haven;t had time to pay much attention to the mod queue...

[robkelk]

Looks like Miraheze is completely down.

All The Tropes:

This wiki is temporarily unavailable

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(Cannot access the database: Cannot access the database: Connection timed out (db171))

poserdazfreebies:

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Error 502 Bad Gateway

kanrikyara:

issue-tracker:

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2024-09-04 14:44:17 UTC
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Cloudflare Ray ID: 8bdec1a42975a2fc • Your IP:
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[robkelk]

Five minutes later, and wikis have come back.

[robkelk]

ATT's gone away again.

An error occurred during a connection to allthetropes.org.

* The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few moments.
* If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer’s network connection.
* If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure that Firefox is permitted to access the web.

And I can't enter a ticket on issue-tracker:

No Create Permission

You do not have permission to create these objects.