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*sigh*
Spud. You're not really understanding where I'm coming from on this.
Look. Are you trying to tell me that I have to PAY Bioware money for a product that will RIP MY HEART OUT if I am to have the right to argue with you? FUCK THAT.
I'm not giving Bioware my money! Not until they've fixed this!
But - are you willing to step up and put your money where your mouth is?
You want to MAIL ME YOUR COPY OF THE GAME? I'll install it, send you the disc back, play the game. Then after I'm done, I'll uninstall it just to be certain I'm not stepping on your account privs or something.
I am NOT ARGUING THE GAME IS NOT FANTASTIC. I am certain you are correct in 99% up to the ending it is!
But I'm not kidding. It WILL tear me up to see that ending happen to my Shepard. But I'll fucking DO it to prove a goddamn point if you are deadset that I CAN'T be right without playing the game.
I've PMed you with my mailing address.
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Ah, Diana Allers. A nice idea, but I wish they'd just gone with Emily Wong rather then a real person tie-in. Her voice actress clearly isn't used to acting and the face had some rather... problematic moments. Which is a shame, as she had some nice character moments, and some interesting expansion on the media in the 22nd century. Of course human women would get better results in the galactic media...
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I too enjoyed the game. The ending was a little meh (I chose synthesis, I'll try the other endings on different characters), but I'm hardly going to start screaming that the series is RUNIED FOREVAR!
I also laugh at all the people trying to threaten Bioware with a boycott. Exact same thing happend with Dragon Age 2 (which I also enjoyed immensly, can't wait for 3) and it didn't seem to have much of an impact on the sales of The Old Republic or Mass Effect 3.
Edit: Yeah, something about Diane Allers face was just... wrong.
--
If you become a monster to put down a monster you've still got a monster running around at the end of the day and have as such not really solved the whole monster problem at all.
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It's a common problem with trying to map real faces into the Unreal Engine, if I remember right (Miranda had a few O_O moments in ME2), but several of Dianas scenes had her camera-bot zooming in on her face at extreme close range. Gave me nightmares, I swear.
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You know, if I *could*, I would. But the game is tied to your Origin account, which is also tied to other games I'm playing. So I can't send you a copy of the game.
And I've stated that it's within your right to withhold your money. Perfectly reasonable response, there. I have no bones with it.
I am pointing out that you are, in effect, judging a book by its cover based on 10 minutes at the end. You are unwilling to listen to others when they say that the rest of it is brilliant and far outweighs the bad. You are screaming that Bioware needs to "fix this"; that your choices "don't matter". You are demonstrably wrong on this, which is what I argued. But you don't care. That last ten minutes is apparently important enough to you, even though it's been pointed out that it quite literally does not represent the rest of the game as a whole, that you're willing to throw away all of your potential enjoyment and amazement and sheer emotional intensity of a truly amazing, gripping story easily on par with the first two, and better in a lot of ways.
And that's fine. If that's how you feel, I'm certainly not going to be able to change your mind.
What I object to is the idea, the concept, the outright insanity of the idea that you have the ability to *honestly* criticize something when you have deliberately ignored the vast majority of it. I've never argued that the last 10 minutes weren't bad. I've argued that the rest is worth it, and you can ignore that bit. But your claim is that you can't ignore that. Okay then. Different strokes for different folks.
--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
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Matrix Dragon Wrote:Ah, Diana Allers. A nice idea, but I wish they'd just gone with Emily Wong rather then a real person tie-in. Her voice actress clearly isn't used to acting and the face had some rather... problematic moments. Which is a shame, as she had some nice character moments, and some interesting expansion on the media in the 22nd century. Of course human women would get better results in the galactic media... Sad to say - but there was a very good reason why Emily Wong was not available to meet up with Shepard again. (read the update at the bottom to see what I mean. Maybe follow the cite link to the original twitter feed if you like.)
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That reminds me. I need to brutally murder Wrex in my ME1 playthrough. I keep 'forgetting' to because Wrex is awesome and his brother's a complete moron, but from all reports it's a completely different first third of the game.
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Logan Darklighter Wrote:Matrix Dragon Wrote:Ah, Diana Allers. A nice idea, but I wish they'd just gone with Emily Wong rather then a real person tie-in. Her voice actress clearly isn't used to acting and the face had some rather... problematic moments. Which is a shame, as she had some nice character moments, and some interesting expansion on the media in the 22nd century. Of course human women would get better results in the galactic media... Sad to say - but there was a very good reason why Emily Wong was not available to meet up with Shepard again. (read the update at the bottom to see what I mean. Maybe follow the cite link to the original twitter feed if you like.) Oh, I know. That was awesome. I was checking twitter every five minutes at work when that was updating. Fantastic.
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Re: Diana Allers... I understand she was based off a real-life person, someone Chobot or Chobit or whatever, a host on a gaming site. I dunno. Back when that bit first came out I searched for her on Youtube, and the first hit I got was of some strange girl licking a PSP while a fratboy egged her on.
... so, uh, yeah. I got nothin'. I can't say the character in-game was *that* bad, but she wasn't anywhere near my Shep's romance-radar.
Samantha Traynor, on the other hand... rowr. I *will* be playing again to find out how the game changes when you pick her as a romance option. As I said upthread, the classy way she handled rejection (and I'm not being sarcastic at all) was enough by itself to ensure my interest.
--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
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Oh yeah, Traynor was awesome. Quite the change from Kelly as Shepards yeoman. Loved her scenes, and the dialogue between her and Shepard was just plain fun. I always stopped to talk to her between missions just to see what she had to say. Kinda sorry she didn't wander the ship and interact with the rest of the team as times.
Also, running into Kelly on the Citadel. I punched the hug interrupt the moment it appeared. Poor girl. You honestly get the impression she's still suffering from what the Collectors did to her, and yet there she is, putting her counselling experience to work and helping refugees. The crew of the Normandy continues to be fantastic.
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Kelly's fate *really* got to me. Fucking Cerberus!
Also, I loved the new quest mechanic. No longer do you have to be Captain Busybody, going up to and questioning everyone. Now you can just wander by and hey, look, here's side-content.
Oh! Speaking of... godDAMN, that Asari in the hospital... I kept coming back to hear more of her story, and it is gut-wrenching.
--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
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I can make that asari's story even worse for you Spud.
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Oh? I thought I finished all of it...
--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
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You did. There's a piece of evidence people have noted that makes it even more heartbreaking. You want it here or elsewhere?
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Sofaspud Wrote:You know, if I *could*, I would. But the game is tied to your Origin account, which is also tied to other games I'm playing. So I can't send you a copy of the game.
And I've stated that it's within your right to withhold your money. Perfectly reasonable response, there. I have no bones with it. Crap. You're right. Forgot all about that.
Quote:I am pointing out that you are, in effect, judging a book by its cover
based on 10 minutes at the end. You are unwilling to listen to others
when they say that the rest of it is brilliant and far outweighs the
bad. You are screaming that Bioware needs to "fix this"; that your
choices "don't matter". You are demonstrably wrong on this, which is
what I argued. But you don't care. That last ten minutes is apparently
important enough to you, even though it's been pointed out that it
quite literally does not represent the rest of the game as a whole, that
you're willing to throw away all of your potential enjoyment and
amazement and sheer emotional intensity of a truly amazing, gripping
story easily on par with the first two, and better in a lot of ways.
I think I've said this about 2-3 times now. But are your eyes just sliding right over it when I say that's not what I'm arguing? Am I not saying it the right way? I have never, in any way, shape or form intentionally meant to argue that the rest of the game is crap based on 10 minutes at the end. I've said over and over that I'm CERTAIN that you are correct that the rest of the game IS awesome and enjoyable to play!
What I'm saying is that the final 10 minutes INVALIDATES the rest of it no matter HOW awesome it may be! Makes everything you did and said and chose throughout all 3 games null, void, and pointless. Not only invalidates it, but flatly CONTRADICTS the tone and feel of the rest of the story and makes no sense. Forces characters into actions that are flatly against what their characters would do. Yes, your choices may have made vast differences in the rest of the game. But when all is said and done, it's still "rocks fall, everybody dies" no matter what you did!
Since I am in the position of having not yet bought the game, I'm doing the only thing I can do. Voting with my wallet. I cannot and will not support Bioware/EA for a half-assed conclusion, even if the rest of the game is fantastic. Because it really is that important to me.
I may yet buy the game when it's been modified or changed by Bioware. I have to wait to see what they do with it first, though. And - though I didn't want to in the first place, I'm going to have to spoiler it for myself just to be sure they did right. If they do, then I'll happily buy the game and play it.
I was going to say that if Bioware doesn't get it right, that someday I might simply wait to pick up the game discs from a used bin at the game/book store. But apparently that stupid Origin crap will make that impossible too. If that's the case, I may -never- play the game. I'll just have to let it go, and mourn what could have been. And never speak of it again.
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Quote:Logan Darklighter wrote:
Quote:What I'm saying is that the final 10 minutes INVALIDATES the rest of it no matter HOW awesome it may be! Makes everything you did and said and chose throughout all 3 games null, void, and pointless. Not only invalidates it, but flatly CONTRADICTS the tone and feel of the rest of the story and makes no sense. Forces characters into actions that are flatly against what their characters would do. Yes, your choices may have made vast differences in the rest of the game. But when all is said and done, it's still "rocks fall, everybody dies" no matter what you did!
Really? It did?
Seriously, every time I see a comment like that, I have to stop and check to see if maybe I got some magical different version of the game. Because I'm pretty sure I got an entirely different experience from the ending. I'm pretty sure there wasn't an 'everybody dies' moment for me. Is it me? Am I just crazy for realizing the potential the ending offers the setting? For seeing in a heartbeat how damn near everyone could survive?
If I am, hooray for me.
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What Sky said, above.
(And obviously, you got the Australian version. Durrr.)
--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
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What, the version with all the Spiders?
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The Mass Relays blow up. They're gone. Let's ignore the fact that Mass Effect has already established that if one of these things blows up, it's effectively a supernova scale explosion that destroys an entire solar system. We'll go with what we see in the game and assume via some space magic that the pretty colored explosions are different somehow.
They're still -gone-. There are no more Mass Relays.
Which means that the entire vast armada you brought with you to fight the Reapers? They're stranded on Earth! Which would not have the resources to support that huge galactic armada if it was in it's prime! But now - no croplands, no infrastructure, no food, probably mass extinction of many native animals, and likely the beginnings of a nuclear winter style ice-age beginning due to all the dust and debris. So about a zillion people, several different species, (two of which can't even eat the native food anyway!) are stranded orbiting a burnt out cinder of a world with no resources, and no mass relays to go get resources.
So basically, in the BEST of all possible endings as presented, that entire vast armada that came with you to fight the Reapers? They're all going to starve and die. Woo victory over the Reapers. Yay. And now it's the Donner party scenario writ large on a galactic scale. Everyone's dead and screwed. That's just the reality of the situation.
And if there's no interstellar travel, what was the point of uniting the galaxy? Sure, the Krogans and the Turians have patched things up with each other. Too bad neither race will ever see the other ever again because they are in different parts of the galaxy. The Quarian Migrant Fleet? They got their homeworld back from the Geth. But now they can't get to it. And they'll starve and die in the Sol system. They're probably extinct. The Krogans and the Rachni are stranded here in the Sol system too. The Rachni are probably going to be extinct too after all of this. The Krogans back on the homeworld will survive. But the ones that came with you will starve with the rest. Assuming they don't go nuts and start killing people themselves.
So you went all around the galaxy and put all those conflicts to rest. Got people to cooperate with each other. To learn to live with each other. And for WHAT? They'll never see each other again! At least not in any of the current generation's lifetimes. And by the time they do, if they ever do, will it mean anything? WIll they remember?
So yeah. Invalidation. Pointlessness. Futility.
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Well, I posted my theories on why I didn't see it so much as the end of everything, and more of a 'Brave New World' approach a few pages back. I'm tired and can't be bothered rewriting it. But I will note that in the ending I got? The Quarians had sent their agriculture ships, probably as a part of the relief efforts Earth was going to desperately need once the Reapers were done. So I don't think people are going to starve horribly. And I've mentioned I don't think new Mass Relays are impossible, and we know they still have galactic communications that don't use the Relay network, we know they have the largest engineering project in recorded history still underway, so... yeah. Guess I'm more of an optimist then most of the people that play Mass Effect. Go me!
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So. Been watching this thread with interest. I'll let you know that I've got ME1&2, but not 3 yet. Its been interesting seeing what's been going on with the players and Bioware.
What really interests me is that a lot of people think that the 'Last ten minutes' didn't happen. Really.
I don't know which link I followed to find it, but I've got an interesting article that a player wrote that gives pretty good thought to those 'Last ten minutes' being a dream sequence or something similar.
Article http://docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4 ... view?pli=1]here.
Logan, would it make you happier to see it this way?
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Oh God, the indoctrination theory. It's like the players way of sticking their fingers in their ears and going 'LALALALA'. They're welcome to their opinion, that's the fun thing about a game where you're the main character, but me? Jack Harper saw all his dreams die, had just enough time to understand his mistake, and then he was sent to his final judgement.
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Okay, this is awesome. A group arranged to have a lot of cupcakes with red, blue and green icing sent to Bioware, noting that 'they all taste the same!'
As expressing displeasure goes, that one's pretty clever.
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HA!!!! Now that's class!
Got a link for that? Was it a news story? Or an email or what?
(Edit: BTW - Who is Jack Harper?)
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Jack Harper is the real name of the Illusive Man, and between the Reapers and his own arrogance and lack of morals, it all comes crashing down around him. In the process, so many of my ME2 problems are answered, not all to my satisfaction, but in a way that still improves that chapter of the story and makes it easier for me to replay that game. You see the sort of man he became over the years, and I found his plot in this game to be very nicely done.
His, and Henry Lawson. For anyone who was wondering? Miranda was actually understating the kind of monster her daddy was. O_O
And I saw the cupcake thing on the Bioware forums.
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