Quote:eah. That sounds like a new trope to add to the list at TV Tropes.I was just thinking the same thing. If you don't do it, Drogn, I just might.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Uh oh.... (Mass Effect)
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 -- Bob --------- Then the horns kicked in... ...and my shoes began to squeak. 
Go ahead if you like, I'm not hep to all this wicky-wack jive you kids are into these days. For another possible example, Batman & Robin: there wasn't another Batman movie for, what, a decade after that? Long enough for the next age group of fans who love the comics but didn't remember the freaky neon-lit stinkeroo most noteable for the long shots of Poison Ivy's tightly-wrapped goods.
- CD -- "Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows 
Well...
I think Batman and Robin cannot be put in the same category. But your example does point out something. That if we were to make this category, it needs to be defined more tightly. B&R was simply BAD. From beginning to end. A total and complete stinkfest. The Plan 9 from Outer Space of the modern superhero movies. (Others have been as bad - some people might point out Halle Berry's Catwoman or Elektra. But those movies didn't kill existing franchises dead.) Mass Effect 3 is, from all accounts (and what little footage aside from the ending I've seen) an incredibly GOOD Game and story. It follows two other installments that were just as good. Absolutely no one is arguing that the whole game is bad. It is ONLY in the last 10 minutes that it fails. ONLY the last 10 minutes that feels "tacked on" and not even part of the same narrative. And it is ONLY in the last 10 minutes that the fans/players feel so ultimately betrayed. So - are there any other examples of movies, books, tv series, or animation where this sort of thing has happened? Perhaps if we have those examples, we can make comparisons and see what common elements this potential new trope has? To reiterate - this is any story in any medium where it is incredibly good right until the end and then takes a sharp left turn into suckage. (Perhaps so bad that you want to throw the book/tape/DVD/Controller across the room.) BTW - I strongly recommend if we're going to start up a discussion about making a new trope, that it branch off into it's own thread. Or perhaps migrate the discussion to the actual TV Tropes site? 
If this does get migrated to TV Tropes for discussion, then I want a link posted.
So, Patrick Weekes, senior writer on ME3, had an informal review with a fan at PAX, and it's been posted on the Bioware forums. It's mostly all about the ending, but rather then another round of arguing over 'you suck/no you suck', it was more fleshing out a few details and such, some of which I suspect may be included in the planned Extended Cut DLC coming out sometime in the next few months. That, by the way, has been confirmed as a free DLC that expands the ending with more cutscenes and explanations, hopefully giving the players a better look at the end of the series then what even I admit is rather open ended.
http://social.bioware.com...pic/355/index/11154234/1
I finaly got off my ass and finished ME3.
I didn't hate the ending, but I wasn't wowed either. everything was going fine, sure, Anderson had died, but I killed the Illusive Man the same way I killed Saren, talked him into blowing his own brains out. Then I went on the grav lift and talked to.... the architect from the second matrix film I think... Now I have seen the video on youtube that argues most of ME3 is Shepard fighting off indoctrination... but I don't know... seems like a stretch to explain away some plot holes. But what ending did I chose? Control, where some how taking the pilot seat of the reapers blows up the relays, but hey, I am a god (till Harbinger kicks me out)? Synthesis, where via Space Magic! I die and blow up the relays, but hey, we all get to be techno organic and happy? Or Destroy, where I blow up the relays, a hundred elder god death bots and crash back to earth and have a happily ever after with Liara? Of course I blew up the death bots! I'm no idiot.  So in a fanficy ending, My Shepard retired to the new Krogan collany of Australia and Had many blue babies (and maybe adopted a Krogan kid as well), while the universe slowly rebuilt. The End... till the next galactic threat rocks up.
The Preview is out and it is awesome!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgW9l7CR1WQ Spoilers (After the video only) The Mass Effect winge really gets on my tits; Rick doesn't get the girl in Casablanca. I have a lot invested in Rick - I want the ending to have him nut-punch Hitler so hard that the single nazicle explodes through the fuehrer's forehead like Athena bursting free from Zeus. Then he hooks up with his lady love and wing surfs a Spitfire back to Britain. Instead, fog, and a walk with a tiny Frenchman. WTF Michael Curtiz. Rev Dark Wrote:The Preview is out and it is awesome!Really Rev? I know you obviously don't agree with the people who are advocating a new ending, but this is kinda trolly. Quote:kinda trolly. Huh. No, not really. This is the Rev we're talking about here. I got a big laugh out of it, though. "No can brain today. Want cheezeburger." From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies Wiredgeek Wrote:*shrug* it's a matter of perception. Besides, you're clearly not invested in either side of the debate, so you can't really be trolled by anything to do with such.Quote:kinda trolly.
Mm. Given what I've heard of the ending(s), the Supernature video would probably have been just as appropriate.
-- Bob --------- Then the horns kicked in... ...and my shoes began to squeak. Quote:*shrug* it's a matter of perception. Besides, you're clearly not invested in either side of the debate, so you can't really be trolled by anything to do with such. That's chip truth right there. I'm quivering in fanboyish tremor about Borderlands 2 this fall, if that helps. "No can brain today. Want cheezeburger." From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies
... this argument is still going on?
-- Sucrose Octanitrate. Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
Nah, it's just mockery and satire now.
-- Bob --------- Then the horns kicked in... ...and my shoes began to squeak.
It's not really an argument at this point.
We know Bioware screwed the pooch. Simple fact. The sales are already in. So Mass Effect 3 will be considered successful, despite what the fans say. But I think Bioware is taking a serious hit in customer loyalty. And I think the next game they release, whether that is Dragon Age 3 or some expansion of Mass Effect or TOR is going to suffer. People will NOT pre-order those future products in anything approaching the numbers that they did for ME3. They'll wait and see what reviews say. And NOT what the official gaming magazines/websites say. I think the people who used to be Bioware's core fanbase are going to wait for fan reviews and ratings. And Rev, that was a troll on your part. But to hell with it. I'm just tired of the whole thing anyway. Flame away for all I care. I'm completely out of fucks to give at this point.
Well, the Internet believes Bioware screwed the pooch. That's not proof they did. Speaking as a comic fan, I know all too well the opinion of the internet is rarely the opinion of the majority of a companies customers.
Logan thus opined.
Quote:And Rev, that was a troll on your part. But to hell with it. I'm justIt is okay; I have a few to spare you. Butthurt what light at yon window breaks. Losing their heart to a starship trooper. Any excuse to post that video is a good excuse. But more seriously. Can you think of any other media where the fans would demand of the authors that the end of a story be re-written to accommodate their expectations? Or where those fans would be seen as anything other than a pack of whiny douche-buckets? I used the example of Casablanca; as one of the classics of film for a very specific reason. If you want games - and gamers to be taken seriously as any other art medium and the supporters of that medium; then you have to be willing to accept a little butthurt when things don't meet your expectations. And like any other art - you can always act with your pocketbook and not support that artist in the future. Bitching that you are displeased is cool and cathartic. Mocking the creatorauthorartist for poor choices is also okay. Not buying their product - go for it. Demanding they salve your butthurt and change the ending? Bollocks. Matrix Dragon Wrote:Well,That's assuming that it's just any old product. But this is (largely) a PC game we're talking about here. I'd like you to name me ten people you know who play ME that don't use the Internet. Simple fact: an overwhelming majority of Bioware's customers use the sprockin' Internet. In this case, Internet opinion = customer opinion. There is no escaping it. Therefore, if you subscribe, even loosely, to the salesman's maxim of "The customer is always right" then Bioware has indeed screwed the pooch... and then posted Facebook photos of said screwing in action. BTW: Rev? Are you, by perchance, a Linux user?
Yes, well, in this case I'm one of the people that liked the ending. I've spoken with quite a few people that liked the ending or only had a few minor problems with it. It's hardly a 100% dissatisfaction rating, and many people don't bother going around posting 'well, I liked it'. With most forms of media, especially video games, you're much more likely to see people screaming about what they don't like.
Matrix Dragon Wrote:Yes, well, in this case I'm one of the people that liked the ending. I've spoken with quite a few people that liked the ending or only had a few minor problems with it. It's hardly a 100% dissatisfaction rating, and many people don't bother going around posting 'well, I liked it'. With most forms of media, especially video games, you're much more likely to see people screaming about what they don't like.I'm pretty sure you're in the minority here. I think most of the controversy around the ME3 ending is over the gamers going as far as to asking Bioware to change it (Which I'm personally ambivalent about. I wouldn't mind a more ending stuff, but I'm a little worried over the sort of precedent it might set) but not whether the endings were bad or not. While you're correct in that there _are_ people such as yourself who are okay with/like the ending you're pretty outnumbered. Otherwise I suspect that there would be an equally vociferous and vocal group supporting the endings - which there isn't. (Also, I'm pretty sure there was a poll on the bioware forums that showed about 90% of the people disliked the ending. - And this thing had a total of something like 50k votes)
BA asked (without the support of Face, Murdock and Hannibal)
Rev? Are you, by perchance, a Linux user? Only when the painful necessity arises. At some point I will upgrade to Linux Guru;but I have other more pertinent skills that I am sharpening. Maybe on my next PC. I am not sure what the thrust of the question was; but I will take a stab at it. Open source software as Art as it pertains to the Mass Effect Mass Butthurt. If you are a contributor to an open source software project; you are an artist in regards to that project. Not unlike some of the Renaissance Master's schools - where a painting might be signed Titian, but Titian just oversaw the process, did some sketches, and perhaps painted the odd ankle of broad buttock (it is after all Titian; the joy of base-minded art students and the bane of prudish art teachers.) You are still and artist and you still have stake - and more importantly a say in the product; you are part of the creative process. That doesn't really apply to Mass Effect. You are a consumer (unless you worked on the product). Every choice you make was designed by the artists responsible for creating the experience. There is no mechanism for busting out of the shell and ad-libbing new lines, or having Sheppard drop space skivvies, smear Space Hamster marmite over the now exposed galactic genitalia and invite the all tentacle Martian rugby team over for a nosh. You are not part of the creative process - you are making choices within the system that someone else's creating process built. You may have a lot invested in your personal space avatar, but it is in the actions allowed to you by the game. A creative process you were not part of.
I think you're mischaracterizing the thrust of the question, Rev. That impressed me as more of a 'Do you have a neckbeard and no social skills' reference to the Linux stereotype.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger." From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies
Neckbeard - No.
Social skills - Far too many. I am an artist though - in multiple mediums; and art is very important to me. While not a gamer per se- I rate no higher than casual on the gaming scale - I am very interested in the transition of games; and their acceptance as an art form. Rev Dark Wrote:BA asked (without the support of Face, Murdock and Hannibal)Okay, first, I'm just going to make a note that I'm arguing for the sake of arguing - I'm personally ambivalent about the 'Change the ending bit' - though I do fall in the 'the ending kinda sucks' camp. However, you did accede that someone could have a lot invested in their personal space avatar - which in itself is a personal stake. Now, I'll admit that it's not a _real_ creative stake, but I think that it _does_ give the illusion of such. And I don't think that many consumers of the game really make a distinction between the two. As such, their reaction is an emotional one. And so for those so invested, the demand 'Change it!' probably doesn't seem very ridiculous at all. On top of which, in no other media is such a change really possible. Nobody is seriously going to believe that an author is going to rewrite the ending of their book and republish it, nor does anyone think that anyone's going to re-assemble a movie cast to reshoot the last scene. But it's clearly _possible_ to patch a video game until it works better - and so come the demands. I think this is simply human nature reacting to the state of the media rather than a deficiency in those people demanding the change. For one, I don't think any of those same people would actually go about demanding the same change in any other media. Also, those same consumers don't perceive a game as 'art' but rather perceive it as a product. And in their view, the product is defective - and thus should be fixed.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/ ... ss-bureau/
Quote:“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.” Quote:But despite some qualification, BBB is willing to go there: “The issue at stake here is, did Bio Ware falsely advertise? Technically, yes, they did.” This is 100% in line with what I have come to understand. It isn't the fact that the ending of Mass Effect is Ice Cream. It's the fact that 'we' were promised that our actions would determine whether we got Ice Cream, Apple Pie, or Eternal Hellfire with Sausage*. Instead, we get three different colors of sprinkles on the same Ice Cream (there's a sub-kvetch there that the ice cream is made with tofu - what the hell is up with that, but I digress). *Eternal Hellfire with Sausage. Take a large amount of flat bacon, weave a traditional Bacon Mat. Cook the remaining bacon (2/3lb approximate) to 'crispy'. Coat the bacon mat with a thin spread of Frank's Red Hot. Take two pounds Jimmy Dean 'Hot' sausage, thawed, and mix in a bowl with one egg and one cup green Tabasco. Spread the resultant hell-brew on your bacon mat. Top with the previously cooked bacon, crumbled, mixed with roasted jalapeno peppers. Roll into loaf. Bake at ~350 until core temperature goes above ~185f. Baste with Sweet Baby Rays, Stubbs, or Neelys' spicy barbecue sauce multiple times during baking process. "No can brain today. Want cheezeburger." From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies |
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