All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part X

[robkelk]

A user named RocketMaster, who's been a member since 2013 and should know better, just up and decided he didn't like the name of Monday Every Day. So he renamed it.

I've reverted the change and left a note instructing him to propose the rename in the forums; I just wanted to flag this for everyone else here since I seem to still be having problems with the fancier message functions on the wiki thanks to our persistent MWException issues.

I think he saw your message.

[Bob Schroeck]

Uh-huh. Well, there goes any goodwill I had for him.

EDIT: Geth, his bio claims he's a friend of yours. If so, could you please let him know he's been tempbanned for 3 days so he doesn't keep posting "My Account's Been Hacked" messages? Thanks.

[robkelk]

It got such a big reaction last time, so it's back!

Yes, 503 has returned!

[ECSNorway]

I went to https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Jumping_Of...pery_Slope today and got this error:

[dc5a40ab5b2cc9239f09a906] 2018-01-20 02:21:54: Fatal exception of type MWException

Reloading the page just got the same error with a different hash in brackets and a new timestamp.

Attempted it a third time and the page loaded.

[robkelk]

Known error... and it's really getting old.

Brent, any idea when this is going to be fixed? It's only affecting ATT, not the freebie wiki.

[Morganite]

I think he saw your message.

I can't help but feel that proposals by someone who uses the word "butthurt" unironically should be looked at with a great deal of suspicion, if not simply dismissed out of hand.

-Morgan.

[LynnInDenver]

I think he saw your message.

I can't help but feel that proposals by someone who uses the word "butthurt" unironically should be looked at with a great deal of suspicion, if not simply dismissed out of hand.

-Morgan.

Especially when for the first time he violated the procedure, as the description for when the admin helpfully pointed out on the reversion what the procedure is supposed to be to implement the change he desired.

It's like some of these people really do think the procedures are mere suggestions and not the way things should actually be done.

[Bob Schroeck]

Feel free to cast votes against the change, then.

From my point of view, he's already violated Item #1 of the Terms of Service: "You promise not to be a huge jerk on our site."

[robkelk]

...
From my point of view, he's already violated Item #1 of the Terms of Service: "You promise not to be a huge jerk on our site."

I will take the lead in investigating this complaint. Bob, you might be perceived to have a conflict of interest here. What do the other admins think?

EDIT: it would probably be best to email me replies, rather than posting them here.

[Bob Schroeck]

If you want to, but I figured the three-day tempban was sufficient and was going to let it lie unless he kept at it.

[Bob Schroeck]

And on another subject, I see the MWExceptions seem to have gone away. At least, I haven't had a single one so far all morning.

[LulzKiller]

I've been thinking about article classifications, and how Wikipedia has generally done OK (with room to approve on them) in regards to judging quality.

I've been wondering how we could use something similar, but for what we do; as merely porting it as-is wouldn't work, thanks to the fact that their system is perfectly tailored towards encyclopedic content; whereas what we do is quite different.

I and Geth know the extension that would give us the tech to do it, it's more how we would actually judge it, because we have to compare and contrast the original explanation of the trope/work/creator; along with how much troping/example content a page has, if that makes sense.

I think this is something where we need to collaboratively figure out and write out what would work within this context.

I know we have bigger problems, especially with our large database and what it contains inside it, but it'd be a step towards quality control.

[GethN7]

I've been thinking about article classifications, and how Wikipedia has generally done OK (with room to approve on them) in regards to judging quality.

I've been wondering how we could use something similar, but for what we do; as merely porting it as-is wouldn't work, thanks to the fact that their system is perfectly tailored towards encyclopedic content; whereas what we do is quite different.

I and Geth know the extension that would give us the tech to do it, it's more how we would actually judge it, because we have to compare and contrast the original explanation of the trope/work/creator; along with how much troping/example content a page has, if that makes sense.

I think this is something where we need to collaboratively figure out and write out what would work within this context.

I know we have bigger problems, especially with our large database and what it contains inside it, but it'd be a step towards quality control.

Two things:

One, sent RocketMaster a message to chill and discuss changes before doing them.

As for this idea, here's the extension LK brought up:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension...ssessments

It looks technically easy to implement and should be no security concern, and I can bot any large scale changes needed to implement this if required.

[Bob Schroeck]

I'm not entirely sure how we go from the extension to actual quality judgments, but I have no objections to at least trying to implement something that works for us.

And thanks for talking to RocketMaster, Geth.

[LulzKiller]

I'm not entirely sure how we go from the extension to actual quality judgments, but I have no objections to at least trying to implement something that works for us.

And thanks for talking to RocketMaster, Geth.

That's sort of what me and Geth meant, we wanted to talk about how would separate our articles in terms of quality and how to make those judgements.

[robkelk]

Some proposed quality metrics:

• How many of the listed examples need context? (The lower, the better; ideally "zero".)
  
• If the page has an image, is the image Just a Face and a Caption? (We'd want this to be "no".)
  
• Is there discussion on the main page? (We'd want this to be "no".)
  

[Bob Schroeck]

Other metrics:

• Grammar and spelling
  
• Are the examples really of the trope, or do they just live within a few blocks of it?
  
• Are examples sorted into media types?  Are the media types properly alphabetized?
  
• Are there any stub templates on the page ("Yes" immediately downgrades the page radically)
  
• Similarly, are there any "Needs X" templates on the page? (same)
  
• Does the main text of a work page have more than two sentences?
  
  

And what I meant above about not knowing how we go from extension to quality, is that I haven't quite grasped what the extension really does.

[robkelk]

• Does the main text of a work page have more than two sentences?
  

Does the main text of a work page identify the genre, medium, creator, and vintage of the work?

If the work's medium is Web*, is there a link to the work?

---

Are there hidden-spoiler sections on a page that has a template that warns spoilers will be in plain view (e.g., Death Trope)? (this lowers the quality somewhat)
Are there unhidden spoilers on a page that doesn't have a template that warns spoilers will be in plain view? (IMHO, this lowers the quality more than the above does)

[robkelk]

There's a question on the Long Term-Perpetual Projects forum that I'm not qualified to answer, because the decision was reached before I was on the mod team and I don't remember the conversations around it.

What happened to the Trope Pantheons, and are there any plans to bring them back?

[Bob Schroeck]

I think we decided to dispense with them, but honestly, I don't remember exactly myself.

My personal opinion is that they were kind of pointless and silly, and not in a fun way.

[Bob Schroeck]

Heads up to the admins, if you haven't gotten pinged by the wiki yet.  We have a new user, Grimm, who doesn't seem to be reading his talk page, and who has not just posted a work page lifted wholesale from TVT ("Earth 27/Fan Fic"), but put it in TVT namespacing.  And then, after I deleted it for copyright violation reposted the damned thing.  Which I've just re-deleted.

I can't be up all night watching this nimrod, and I'm not going to tempban him without fair warning just to keep him from doing it again.  I'm not even sure if he's noticed the messages I've left him on his talk page.  But if anyone whose schedule or circadian rhythms will allow them to will check overnight to make sure he hasn't recreated the page yet again, I'd be grateful.

EDIT: Argh. The page he created yesterday -- "Zodiac Starforce" -- is also a license violation. I just deleted it, too.

[robkelk]

And he uploaded an image with a five-digit number name - it was a copyrighted file, and no notice of that fact (or any other description) was given.

And a whole bunch of examples on various trope pages, to which I have added the {{context}} tag.

Three strikes (at least) - he gets a vacation from the wiki.

[LulzKiller]

And he uploaded an image with a five-digit number name - it was a copyrighted file, and no notice of that fact (or any other description) was given.

And a whole bunch of examples on various trope pages, to which I have added the {{context}} tag.

Three strikes (at least) - he gets a vacation from the wiki.

Does he have his send email function available? Is there some kind of communication problem here we're not seeing?

Otherwise when it comes to the quality metrics, I've put all your suggestions in my OneNote when I have time to go back to it, I'll need to also figure out how many different levels there should be along with what they should be called. I feel this is going to be something I'm going to drag my feet on a lot, especially with IRL transitions that I will have to undergo this year.

Feel free to contact me with further suggestions when they come to you, I really feel strongly that this idea could work, even if this is a major undertaking with other priorities needing sorting out for all of us.

[robkelk]

I'll need to also figure out how many different levels there should be along with what they should be called.

Wikivoyage (the travel guide wiki) has a hierarchy that we might want to use: Stub, Outline, Usable, Guide, and Star. All of their Featured articles are either Guide or Star.

[GethN7]

Since we have MediaWiki 1.30 now and a lot of features to make us competitive with TV Tropes are now robust enough we could handle them, I'm considering doing some localhost testing to see if some bugs have been worked out of them.

If so, I plan to petition our MH overlords to add them, but before I do I will submit all my proposed changes and upgrade ideas here for approval from the community after testing all the things that look good for us.

Included will be tests of that quality rating idea of LK, among others.

I also plan to have us take more advantage of some of our lesser used installed extensions. In fact, go view the front page when logged out, you'll see a message encouraging people to make accounts here at the the top of the page, which makes use of the features of this extension:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension...oggedInOut