GOP mad at Pope Francis

[ordnance11]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... ar-BBl5n5E
Normally, I'd be wary of mixing politics and religion, but since Ill Papa says so, who am I to argue? The man must be saying something right if the GOP is mad about it.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[robkelk]

Normally, I'd be wary of mixing politics and religion, but since Ill Papa says so, who am I to argue? The man must be saying something right if the GOP is mad about it.

He hasn't said anything yet. Just how paranoid are the GOP?

From the article:

Rick Santorum, a devout Catholic and a long-shot contender for the Republican nomination, told a Philadelphia radio station: “The church has gotten it wrong a few times on science, and I think we probably are better off leaving science to the scientists and focusing on what we’re good at, which is theology and morality.”

Somebody please tell Mr. Santorum that he has no right to tell somebody else to do something if he isn't willing to do the same thing himself.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[ordnance11]

Somebody please tell Mr. Santorum that he has no right to tell somebody
else to do something if he isn't willing to do the same thing himself.

2 Things:
1 He's a politician. Hypocrisy is de rigeur.
2. He's a GOP politician. Denial is the new normal. Right up to when south Florida becomes the new Atlantis.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[khagler]

As someone who is neither a Catholic nor a pinko, but is well aware of the Catholic position on abortion and birth control, this thread is pretty hilarious.

[ordnance11]

Pinko is so oh 60's. Tell you what. Let's revisit this thread in 15 years and let's see who is right.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Rajvik]

considering i live in florida, i'll lay money that i am
 

[Black Aeronaut]

I honestly can't wait for this. I bet I'll be able to hear the Republicans grinding their gears from Washington all the way over here in Texas. Although that will probably just be the Republicans in Austin grinding their gears as well.

[Logan Darklighter]

I love how everything religious is mocked and derided. And many on this board and elsewhere have been more than willing to bring up how wrong the Catholic Church has been for over 500 years in regards to science. (certainly deserved criticism in all too many cases).
But as soon as the Pontiff says he's for action on global warming, all of a sudden he's a RESPECTED AUTHORITY FIGURE by secularists and leftists. 
The fact that the cognitive dissonance isn't even noticed is absolutely freaking hilarious! 

[robkelk]

Possibly because of the serious Catholic scientists in the Society of Jesus. Here's a list of a few of the more notable Catholic scientists over the last 500 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jesuit_scientists

Please don't blindly accept stereotypes.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[nemonowan]

You completely miss the point Logan.
None of your "secularists and leftists" is suddenly saying that the guy should be obeyed and followed. It's more that they are congratulating him for following THEM in talking sense on this issue.
The fun part is different:
The Pope of the Catholic Church is widely considered a "respected authority figure" by billions of people, catholic or not, because of his office. That is a fact, and encouraging it has been the policy of the Church for centuries already.
Many of these politicians who now complain about the Pope are actually catholic themselves, and thus have accepted him as the ULTIMATE authority on earth. Other ones have hailed him too because he shares their position on subjects like abortion and homosexuality.
But when the Pope reminds them that the Catholic Church has actually progressed a bit on the subject of science (because they know they have to admint the evidence to try and stay relevant), that its policy is that evolution is real, that the universe is billions of years old, that the bible is not to be taken literally, and now that global warming is real and man-made, they can't accept it. It's THEY who are suffering from the cognitive dissonance. They are having all this meltdowns because their "respected figure" and "ultimate authority" has turned out to be some lefty commie hippy and prescribing things that they absolutely do not want to follow.
And we are making fun of them because it is hilarious to watch.

[ECSNorway]

nemonowan wrote:

---

The fun part is different:
The Pope of the Catholic Church is widely considered a "respected authority figure" by billions of people, catholic or not, because of his office. That is a fact, and encouraging it has been the policy of the Church for centuries already.
Many of these politicians who now complain about the Pope are actually catholic themselves, and thus have accepted him as the ULTIMATE authority on earth. Other ones have hailed him too because he shares their position on subjects like abortion and homosexuality.

Actually, no.
Most of the Theocrazy wing among the GOP are not Catholic at all, they're Protestants. Lutherans, Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, you name it.The idea of the Pope speaking directly for God is, to their minds, not merely wrong, but blasphemous and heretical. There's been some rapproachment amongst the various denominations in the past few decades but there are still a lot of churches, especially in the US southeast where a lot of these guys come from, that still teach that the Pope is literally the mouthpiece of Satan.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[ordnance11]

ECSNorway wrote:

---

nemonowan wrote:

---

The fun part is different:
The Pope of the Catholic Church is widely considered a "respected authority figure" by billions of people, catholic or not, because of his office. That is a fact, and encouraging it has been the policy of the Church for centuries already.
Many of these politicians who now complain about the Pope are actually catholic themselves, and thus have accepted him as the ULTIMATE authority on earth. Other ones have hailed him too because he shares their position on subjects like abortion and homosexuality.

Actually, no.
Most of the Theocrazy wing among the GOP are not Catholic at all, they're Protestants. Lutherans, Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, you name it.The idea of the Pope speaking directly for God is, to their minds, not merely wrong, but blasphemous and heretical. There's been some rapproachment amongst the various denominations in the past few decades but there are still a lot of churches, especially in the US southeast where a lot of these guys come from, that still teach that the Pope is literally the mouthpiece of Satan.

True. But if a leader of a major religious denomination says that global warming is real and action should be taken, people would take notice. Even evangelicals.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Bob Schroeck]

Logan Darklighter wrote:

---

I love how everything religious is mocked and derided. And many on this board and elsewhere have been more than willing to bring up how wrong the Catholic Church has been for over 500 years in regards to science. (certainly deserved criticism in all too many cases).
But as soon as the Pontiff says he's for action on global warming, all of a sudden he's a RESPECTED AUTHORITY FIGURE by secularists and leftists. 
The fact that the cognitive dissonance isn't even noticed is absolutely freaking hilarious! 

I'm surprised that you embrace exactly the same kind of political strawmanning you call others out on, Logan. 
(Edit: typo fix)
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[ECSNorway]

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

Logan Darklighter wrote:

---

I love how everything religious is mocked and derided. And many on this board and elsewhere have been more than willing to bring up how wrong the Catholic Church has been for over 500 years in regards to science. (certainly deserved criticism in all too many cases).
But as soon as the Pontiff says he's for action on global warming, all of a sudden he's a RESPECTED AUTHORITY FIGURE by secularists and leftists. 
The fact that the cognitive dissonance isn't even noticed is absolutely freaking hilarious! 

I'm surprised that you sembrace exactly the same kind of political strawmanning you call others out on, Logan. 

So, it's okay for liberals to accuse conservatives of hypocrisy, but not for conservatives to call out liberal hypocrisy, apparently. Nice to know. I'll have to keep that in mind.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[ordnance11]

ECSNorway wrote:

---

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

Logan Darklighter wrote:

---

I love how everything religious is mocked and derided. And many on this board and elsewhere have been more than willing to bring up how wrong the Catholic Church has been for over 500 years in regards to science. (certainly deserved criticism in all too many cases).
But as soon as the Pontiff says he's for action on global warming, all of a sudden he's a RESPECTED AUTHORITY FIGURE by secularists and leftists. 
The fact that the cognitive dissonance isn't even noticed is absolutely freaking hilarious! 

I'm surprised that you sembrace exactly the same kind of political strawmanning you call others out on, Logan. 

So, it's okay for liberals to accuse conservatives of hypocrisy, but not for conservatives to call out liberal hypocrisy, apparently. Nice to know. I'll have to keep that in mind.

Actually, hypocrisy is de rigeur for politicians of any stripe. I suppose an exception can be made for a true believer. Except true believers have a tendency to blot out any evidence that makes them uncomfortable and challenges their worldview.
Let's just say the debate about the science is also settled. The debate now is about values. There is a writer who summarized it beautifully.

Now, let's be clear. There is no sin in this. We ended up here based on a
million collective decisions over two centuries. Many of these
decisions were based in developing technologies that have led to a
better standard of living for a whole lot of human beings. The problem,
however, comes in when turning a blind eye to the recently discovered
consequences of what we built. The entrance of values into those
discussions is an explicit acknowledgement that continuing down this
path is going to mean immense additional human suffering. For others,
first, and then, quite likely, for ourselves, our children and our
grandchildren.

One of my beliefs is that I try and make the world a better place for those who follow behind me. Not to do so is a dereliction of duty for my part. That is why I welcome Pope Francis entering this dicussion. There I things I do not condone on what the Papacy had done recently. But this action, I welcome.
Edit: Here's the link
http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2015/0 ... ge-matters
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[robkelk]

Bob Schroeck wrote:

Logan Darklighter wrote:I love how everything religious is mocked and derided. And many on this board and elsewhere have been more than willing to bring up how wrong the Catholic Church has been for over 500 years in regards to science. (certainly deserved criticism in all too many cases).

But as soon as the Pontiff says he's for action on global warming, all of a sudden he's a RESPECTED AUTHORITY FIGURE by secularists and leftists. 

The fact that the cognitive dissonance isn't even noticed is absolutely freaking hilarious! 

I'm surprised that you sembrace exactly the same kind of political strawmanning you call others out on, Logan. 

So, it's okay for liberals to accuse conservatives of hypocrisy, but not for conservatives to call out liberal hypocrisy, apparently. Nice to know. I'll have to keep that in mind.

How in the world did you get that from what Bob said?

What I read was that Logan had tripped Bob's PKB meter.

--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

ECSNorway wrote:

---

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

Logan Darklighter wrote:

---

I love how everything religious is mocked and derided. And many on this board and elsewhere have been more than willing to bring up how wrong the Catholic Church has been for over 500 years in regards to science. (certainly deserved criticism in all too many cases).
But as soon as the Pontiff says he's for action on global warming, all of a sudden he's a RESPECTED AUTHORITY FIGURE by secularists and leftists. 
The fact that the cognitive dissonance isn't even noticed is absolutely freaking hilarious! 

I'm surprised that you embrace exactly the same kind of political strawmanning you call others out on, Logan. 

So, it's okay for liberals to accuse conservatives of hypocrisy, but not for conservatives to call out liberal hypocrisy, apparently. Nice to know. I'll have to keep that in mind.

I was, in fact, referring to the overgeneralization regarding attitudes toward religion, which is about as strawman as you can get, especially in regards to attitudes about Catholicism. 
The fact that you somehow drew some kind of accusation of hypocrisy from that says far more about you than it does about anything I said.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

robkelk wrote:

---

What I read was that Logan had tripped Bob's PKB meter.

Quite.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Black Aeronaut]

Pick your poison.

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/assets ... herRes.jpg

*Walks off, whistling innocently.*

[robkelk]

So, is it later today or some time tomorrow that Pope Francis makes the statement that's got the GOP all hot and bothered?

And if the GOP really are this good at predicting the future, (a) why aren't they always in power, and (b) why's the USA in such bad shape?
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Dartz]

The entire US political spectrum is made from straw men arguing in straw houses these days.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[Foxboy]

It's because you can't get on TV if you're not going to boost ratings, and reasonable people give less spectacular results than foam-spewing ideologues on both the left and the right.

Since modern politics in the USA depends on media exposure.... well, I find the conclusion obvious.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[Morganite]

And if the GOP really are this good at predicting the future, (a) why aren't they always in power, and (b) why's the USA in such bad shape?

Aren't the people who think it's a good idea expecting it to be basically the same thing? It sounded to me like there was already out there for people to chew on.

(Also, is (b) supposed to sound like a really stupid question?)

-Morgan.

[robkelk]

And if the GOP really are this good at predicting the future, (a) why aren't they always in power, and (b) why's the USA in such bad shape?

Aren't the people who think it's a good idea expecting it to be basically the same thing? It sounded to me like there was already out there for people to chew on.

Oh, definitely.

(Also, is (b) supposed to sound like a really stupid question?)

-Morgan.

It was intended as a leading question.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[SilverFang01]

There have been a lot of comments in the past few days regarding the appropriateness of the leader of the Catholic church to express himself with regards to one of the biggest problems we are confronting, climate change.

Setting aside for the moment whether you trust the scientific evidence available or not, the fact is that this has made a lot of people very nervous. Why? A lot of people in positions of power only like to hear what they want to hear, not what hey need to hear.

But, that is indeed the role that the church should serve in society and when the church is at its best, when it is obeying the command to “pursue justice (Deuteronomy 16:20)”. Have they stumbled? Yes. But at least, for the moment the institution is doing the right thing and that deserves recognition, just as much as it deserves rebuke when it does the wrong things.

In my view, Francis is following in the steps of Moses, Nathan, Samuel, Daniel, Jeremiah, and Mordechai. Each and every one of them went against the powerful when the cause of justice demanded it. So to say that the Pope should only concern himself with one sphere and leave others to worry about climate change betrays a profound ignorance of what the Bible actually says.

The role of the prophet in the bible, is not as it is commonly believed to predict the future or to moralize. The role of the prophet is to make people think, to make people “examine their experiences and their actions with care, lest the deceitfulness of their own thoughts lead them into mistaking wrongdoing for justice.”(The Philosophy of Hebrew Scripture pag.165).