GOP Reality Show

[Bob Schroeck]

Can anyone get a source/confirmation for Romney's 47% claim? I find it hard to believe that, even with the recession, so many are that far below the poverty line, or aren't rich but have enough tax breaks to come down to zero.



ETA: Okay, I just found something about it on http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/18/pf/taxe ... ?hpt=hp_t1]CNN's website:

In fact, the main reason so many Americans end up with no federal income tax liability is Congress' addiction to tax breaks -- tax breaks both Democrats and Republicans have supported....

The Tax Policy Center has estimated that in tax year 2011, 46% of households owed nothing in federal income taxes. About half are nontaxable strictly because of tax breaks. The other half didn't owe federal income tax because of exemptions allowed for subsistence level income and dependents.

The No Tax Club includes some of the very rich -- a few thousand a year usually.

But the group of nonpayers is made up disproportionately of low- and lower-middle-income households, including seniors. More than 90% of all the those who had no federal income tax liability in 2011 had income below $50,000.

Seniors on Social Security and Medicare are supposed to be part of Romney's constituency.  This may not sit well with them.
ETA2:  http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/pf/ ... ?hpt=hp_t1]Here's another page at CNN which breaks out the numbers graphically.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Morganite]

It seems to depend on which exact part you're trying to find a number on as well. I just heard on the radio that according to census data, 49% of American's live in households that receive some kind of government benefit.

It's a pretty big assumption to view all those people as Obama supporters though. And a seriously depressing one from Romney's perspective...

-Morgan.

[Bob Schroeck]

It seems to depend on which exact part you're trying to find a number on as well. I just heard on the radio that according to census data, 49% of American's live in households that receive some kind of government benefit.

It's a pretty big assumption to view all those people as Obama supporters though. And a seriously depressing one from Romney's perspective...

Hell, as has been trumpeted many times over the past few months, there is no one who doesn't benefit somehow from a government program, if only because they drive on public highways and went to public schools.  We can't cast the net that wide (although it does make some of the more extreme libertarians and tea partyists who claim they've never taken a cent from the government look a little silly), not and have it be meaningful.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Black Aeronaut]

I 've read the the speech then Senator Obama said that started the "guns and religion" thing. His thrust is that despite cynicism about goverment, he can reach out to people across the other side of the aisle for the betterment of all. "E Pluribus unum"
Romney's thrust is a repeatt of Bush II. Govern the 51% of the country. All others can go hang. Of course, I belive Obama may have no ecourse, but to adopt the same policy because the Repuiblicans will probably refuse to compromise with the President, if he wins a second term.   

Yeah, a lot of people simply don't understand that a lot of the issues Obama is having with trying to make our country better is not for lack of trying, or even making mistakes while trying (though there have been a few)... They just don't get that the Republican Party and their ultra-conservative reformist sock-puppet, the Tea Party, have been fighting Obama on every little thing, tooth and nail.  In fact... haven't they even opposed Obama on things they would normally support?  All for the sake of ensuring he's a single-term President?
I'm hoping that if he does get another term, they'll just give up and work with him instead.  But I'm not holding out hope.  They'll probably try and make it a Pyrrhic victory by trying to make him seem like the worst President in history.

[ordnance11]

Can anyone get a source/confirmation for Romney's 47% claim? I find it hard to believe that, even with the recession, so many are that far below the poverty line, or aren't rich but have enough tax breaks to come down to zero.



ETA: Okay, I just found something about it on CNN's website:

In fact, the main reason so many Americans end up with no federal income tax liability is Congress' addiction to tax breaks -- tax breaks both Democrats and Republicans have supported....

The Tax Policy Center has estimated that in tax year 2011, 46% of households owed nothing in federal income taxes. About half are nontaxable strictly because of tax breaks. The other half didn't owe federal income tax because of exemptions allowed for subsistence level income and dependents.

The No Tax Club includes some of the very rich -- a few thousand a year usually.

But the group of nonpayers is made up disproportionately of low- and lower-middle-income households, including seniors. More than 90% of all the those who had no federal income tax liability in 2011 had income below $50,000.

Seniors on Social Security and Medicare are supposed to be part of Romney's constituency.  This may not sit well with them.
ETA2:  Here's another page at CNN which breaks out the numbers graphically.

Well, Romney is standing by what he said. His campaign may had realized that he might as well make lemonade.  Fire up the base, since at this point he probably is losing the independents at his point. The Rush Limbaugh crowd is eating it up. The wise men are already getting out the post mortems.
Today's Tea Partiers remind me a lot of the late roman republic conservatives led by people like Cato. Not one iota of change under the banner of "This is the way it had been done in the old days"...followed by nostalgia and yearning.   
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Morganite]

Yeah, a lot of people simply don't understand that a lot of the issues Obama is having with trying to make our country better is not for lack of trying, or even making mistakes while trying (though there have been a few)... They just don't get that the Republican Party and their ultra-conservative reformist sock-puppet, the Tea Party, have been fighting Obama on every little thing, tooth and nail.

That's, uh, kind of what we hired them for? To stop Obama from doing things that we think are horrible ideas?

Actually, they've given in on some pretty high-profile issues, like the debt ceiling increase. So saying that they're "fighting Obama on every little thing" seems questionable, unless you mean they're only fighting on the little things and not the big ones...

-Morgan.

[Labster]

Fire up the base, since at this point he probably is
losing the independents at his point.

That statement is almost
equivalent to "he is losing the election", since independent voters are
so vital for winning Presidential elections. There's only so far that your base will take you in an election.

Actually, they've given in on some pretty high-profile issues, like the debt ceiling increase.

That's your best example: they gave in on an issue that they manufactured?  The responsible way to reduce the debt is through the budget process.  Instead, Congress passed a budget that required mandated the President fund government programs, but then tried to deny the President the ability to borrow to fund said programs.  The President doesn't have a line-item veto; it's solely Congress' job to come up with balanced budgets.  I would much rather they had actually decided to lower the debt, than lower the debt ceiling.  Treat the cause, not the symptoms.
-- ∇×V

[ordnance11]

Fire up the base, since at this point he probably is
losing the independents at his point.

That statement is almost
equivalent to "he is losing the election", since independent voters are
so vital for winning Presidential elections. There's only so far that your base will take you in an election.

The other half of the equation is "voter supression". Keep the other guys voters from coming to the polls. I am expecting the same bruhaha in 2004 Florida to be repeated there. Maybe also in Ohio.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[robkelk]

What, even after the media explosion when such actions appear to have been used in the most recent Canadian election?
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[ordnance11]

What, even after the media explosion when such actions appear to have been used in the most recent Canadian election?

Considering how close the election is and how critical Florida (which has a Tea Party governor) is in terms of electroal votes and the recent brouhaha on poll purging in Florida? No one is going to stuffing the ballot boxes and calling up the grave rolls. In Chicago maybe, but not in Dade county. What I do see are overzealous poll workers scrutinizing with a very fine tooth comb to see if a person is eleigible to vote.  If you don't have the 3 forms of proper ID, you are not voting. Period.
  
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[ordnance11]

The Rommney campaign is debunking what their candidate stands by.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Labster]

What, even after the media explosion when such actions appear to have been used in the most recent Canadian election?

Wait, what happened in Canada?  You have elections up there?
I think that depends a lot on which media you're watching in the U.S.  You could be watching the media who thinks that there are systematic efforts to prevent liberals and minorities from voting, and bring you the stories of 86-year-old nuns getting denied a vote for the first time in their lives.  Or instead you could be watching the media that sees voter fraud as a widespread problem, and that illegal immigrants are trying to steal our elections.  The actual facts aren't relevant -- just which news channel you watch.  (I enjoy Network 23 myself.)
-- ∇×V

[ordnance11]

Now Romney claims he is for 100 percent of all Americans.

Doesn't have a point of view....
Knows not where he's going to..
Isn't he a bit like you and me?
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[CattyNebulart]

If you don't have the 3 forms of proper ID, you are not voting. Period.

Which many of the poor don't have as ID's cost money.



Also the average tax burden of someone earning 50'000 a year is almost as high as that of someone earning well over a third of a billion a year.


E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

[robkelk]

Wait, what happened in Canada?  You have elections up there?

Right - I forgot that the US media has a serious case of navel-gazing.

"What happened" was robocalls on the day of the election directing people away from their actual polling stations. The reported cases are of people who had previously identified as intending to vote one way, who would have been voting in very close races that ended up going the other way.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[ordnance11]

Wait, what happened in Canada?  You have elections up there?

Right - I forgot that the US media has a serious case of navel-gazing.
"What happened" was robocalls on the day of the election directing people away from their actual polling stations. The reported cases are of people who had previously identified as intending to vote one way, who would have been voting in very close races that ended up going the other way.

Hmm....I remember something similar happening in Philly sometime back. Mea culpa to the navel gazing.
  
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[ordnance11]

The Romney campaign has been raising hue and cry over something  the President said. The President is not calling in the towel:
Here's the link
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[khagler]

To save time, here's a post which says everything that needs to be said about this, or any other, US political campaign:

The Wrong Side Absolutely Must Not Win

[Rod.H]

The Romney campaign has been raising hue and cry over something  the President said. The President is not calling in the towel:

ord your link broke the internet

[url=http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2012/09/_can_t_change_washington_from_the_inside_isn_t_obama_s_surrender_it_s_his_declaration_of_war_.html]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... _war_.html

[ordnance11]

It started already
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Dartz]

Wait...

What does it mean 'Register Republican voters?'

Does it mean going out and finding people likely to vote Republican, and ensure they're registered to vote and aware and generally have an incentive to vote. Or is it something more sinister?
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[khagler]

Does it mean going out and finding people likely to vote Republican, and ensure they're registered to vote and aware and generally have an incentive to vote. Or is it something more sinister?

Yes, that's what it means. Keep in mind that US politics are very similar to those British football games where the fans of the teams playing bitterly hate each other for reasons that are incomprehensible to non-fans, so it's likely that fans of the Democrats would consider what you've described to be sinister.

[Jorlem]

Typical vitalist prejudice. The living dead should have just as much say in the future of the United States as those citizens whose hearts still beat within their chests.
-----
Stand between the Silver Crystal and the Golden Sea.
"Youngsters these days just have no appreciation for the magnificence of the legendary cucumber."  --Krityan Elder, Tales of Vesperia.

[Morganite]

Does it mean going out and finding people likely to vote Republican, and ensure they're registered to vote and aware and generally have an incentive to vote.

I'm not sure what 'incentive' might be, but otherwise that sounds about right.

When I've *personally* observed this it's been Deomcrats doing it, but it's something both major parties do and not, to my knowledge, sinister in and of itself.

-Morgan.

[ordnance11]

Does it mean going out and finding people likely to vote Republican, and ensure they're registered to vote and aware and generally have an incentive to vote.

I'm not sure what 'incentive' might be, but otherwise that sounds about right.

When I've *personally* observed this it's been Deomcrats doing it, but it's something both major parties do and not, to my knowledge, sinister in and of itself.

-Morgan.

Get out the vote initiatives have been done by both Republicans and Democrats and is to me a laudable thing. Getting those in the afterlife to vote also...not a laudable thing. Voter suppression tactics, not a good thing either. Florida's electoral votes is one of the, if not the state where the Romney campaign has to win. The last thing the RNC would need is any hint of scandal. Because it would bring out shades of the 2004 election...where there was a pervasive feeling then that the election was stolen by the Republicans. 
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell